From: CLJP92A@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA B REAMS) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 20:42:30, -0500 To: genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: Bagby family Status: R I have Bagby information -- some compiled from Dr. Alfred Bagby's tree, plus additional information on Bagbys in Louisa Co., VA. If interested contact me. Linda from TN CLJP92A@prodigy.com Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:24:58 +0900 From: Michele NIssel X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: Marcy Family Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R I have information on the Marcy Family that spans across he country. Current family is in Washington but only since the 1900's. Before that all across the northern US as they made their way to WA and all points in between. Other lines as well. If interested contact me at nissel@kdn0.attnet.or.jp (that is a zero after kdn and an ooh after attnet. Michele Nissel Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 21:06:36 -0700 From: "Kenneth L. Forbes" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: FORBES/ROBBINS ~~ Shickshinny, Pennsylvania Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R I am looking for more information on George W. FORBES. I discovered this group of indivduals at the Pine Hill Cemetery in Shickshinny, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. I am only guessing at their relation based on the time frame and position in cemetery plot: RELATION NAME BIRTH/DEATH DATES Husband?: George W. FORBES 1849-1911 Wife?: Ada Robbins FORBES 1858-1935 Ada's Brother?: Clarence S. ROBBINS 1860-1929 Clarence Wife?: Ida E. ROBBINS 1863-1930 Clarence's Children?: Carlotta B. ROBBINS 1887-1887 Edna May ROBBINS 1885-1886 ???????: Keith W. ROBBINS 1900-1979 I believe that George is kin. My grandfather and many other family members were born in and around Shickshinny. Any help is appreciated. -- Ken Forbes ~~ originally from New Jersey acclaim@nwrain.com 12105-157th Street Court East Puyallup, WA 98374 To: genweb@ucsd.edu From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 13:05:19 PDT Subject: You are tuned to GenWeb-Do not reply Status: R Anyone receiving this message is one of over 600 people subscribed to the e-mail mailing list GENWEB. The purpose of this list is to facilitate the development of a linked, worldwide distributed genealogy database. (This is not a good place to post queries about individual research projects.) If this topic is not of interest to you ... here is how to unsubscribe: Send an e-mail message to listserv@ucsd.edu In the body of the message put the words: UNSUB GENWEB That's all! Do not reply to this message! Do not send these commands to genweb@ucsd.edu! Do not send me a message about unsubscribing! Just do it as outlined above. If you still want to read about the GenWeb, please point your WWW browser to the URL http://www.genweb.org/genweblist/ All current and archived messages are there for your perusal without cluttering your mailbox. Thanks, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computing Services Manager e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-1989* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-3939* *************************************************************************** To: genweb@ucsd.edu From: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov (J. H. Garner) Subject: Garner Surname Status: R Any information on line of and /or lines descended from Obadiah Garner (1779-1822, died in TN) who married Helen Nance in 1794 in Henry Co, VA? John Nance Garner, FDR's VP, was the great grandson of said Obadiah Garner. J Garner jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Sep 5 17:05:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0uygvp-0004CbC; Thu, 5 Sep 96 17:05:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox1.ucsd.edu) by chopin with SMTP internet(PP); Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:04:44 +0100 Received: from ns.fcic.usda.gov (ns.fcic.usda.gov [165.221.64.23]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00489 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [165.221.65.205] by ns.fcic.usda.gov with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA05949; Thu, 5 Sep 96 10:20:30 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 10:20:30 -0500 Message-Id: <9609051520.AA05949@ns.fcic.usda.gov> X-Sender: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: genweb@ucsd.edu From: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov (J. H. Garner) Subject: Ontario Martins/Martineaus Status: R I am looking for information on the line of my ancestor Joseph Martineau, born in Osgoode Township, Carleton Co., Ontario, married Janet Davidson (emigrated (eventually) to Ontario from Scotland. Martineau's children all fropped the "eau" & became Martin. Martineau & Davidson had issue: Peter Martin, Josiah Martin, Orson Martin, Marganda Martin, Cyrus (Syris) Martin,& Joseph Martin, b. 05 April 1851 in Carleton County, Ontario, Canada, d. abt 1940 in Creston, B.C. Joseph Martin married Catherine Duncan, b. 04 October 1852, near No. Gower Township, Carleton Co., Ontario. She died in 1910. Joseph Martin & Catherine Duncan also had issue: Maggie Martin, Nettie Martin, Lizzie Martin, Nellie Martin, Minnie Martin, John Mark (Jack) Martin, b. 17 October 1871 in Carleton Co., Ontario, Alfred Martin, b. 22 April 1873, Robert Martin b. 1878, & Harry Martin, b. 14 January 1887 in Noxon, MT, US. If you have any sage wisdom to impart and/or know where I can look on the Net for any word on any of these folk, I'd really appreciate it. Thanx J.H. Garner jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 10:23:23 -0500 Message-Id: <9609051523.AA05957@ns.fcic.usda.gov> X-Sender: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: genweb@ucsd.edu From: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov (J. H. Garner) Status: R Am searching for info on lines of Lauchlen McCallum (1816-1867) born in Paisley, near Paddock, Scotland, died in America, & his wife Janet Freeland Robertson (1815-1857) born in Glasgow, near River Clyde, Scotland, died in America. Don't know if they married in Scotland or in America or Canada. She was the daughter of Mary Freeland of Scotland & an unknown Robertson. Unrelated to them, but another direct ancestor to me is Janet Davidson of Scotland, married Joseph Martineau. He was born in Ontario, Canada. I don't know where Janet Davidson or Mary Freeland or the elsuive "unknown" Robertson hail from within Scotland. TIA, J Garner jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov To: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov (J. H. Garner) cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU, jsq@tic.com Subject: Re: Ontario Martins/Martineaus In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:20:30 CDT." <9609051520.AA05949@ns.fcic.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 12:31:35 -0500 From: John Quarterman Status: R >If you have any sage wisdom to impart and/or know where I can look on the >Net for any word on any of these folk, I'd really appreciate it. Since you asked and nobody else has responded: If you ask about your families on a list (such as roots-l@rootsweb.com) or newsgroup (such as soc.genealogy) intended for the purpose, you'll probably get answers. If you ask on genweb, which is for technical discussions, all you'll do is annoy the list members. Where did you hear about genweb? Has somebody got erroneous information about it visible on the net? From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Sep 5 19:07:55 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0uyiqI-0004CbC; Thu, 5 Sep 96 19:07:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by chopin with SMTP uk (PP); Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:08:14 +0100 Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox2.ucsd.edu) by sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk with Internet SMTP (PP); Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:08:07 +0100 Received: from most.fw.hac.com (gw1.hughes-defense-comm.com [151.168.2.3]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10257 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by most.fw.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24426; Thu, 5 Sep 96 12:53:42 EST Received: from unknown(151.168.254.82) by gw1 via smap (V1.3mjr) id smI024155; Thu Sep 5 12:50:25 1996 Received: by most (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08884; Thu, 5 Sep 96 12:50:10 EST Message-Id: <9609051750.AA08884@most> Received: from pseserv3.fw.hac.com(151.168.254.223) by most via smap (V1.5khhunt) id sma008871; Thu Sep 5 12:49:16 1996 Received: by pseserv3 (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA13765; Thu, 5 Sep 96 12:49:49 -0500 From: "W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)" Subject: Re: Ontario Martins/Martineaus To: jgarner@ns.fcic.usda.gov (J. H. Garner) (J. H. Garner) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 12:49:48 EST Cc: genweb@ucsd.edu In-Reply-To: <9609051520.AA05949@ns.fcic.usda.gov>; from "J. H. Garner" at Sep 5, 96 10:20 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R By the time you read this, you'll get plenty of notice that the purpose of genweb is not for doing research, but about coming up with ways to improve research with computers and networks. But here's a couple of starters: http://www.gendex.com http://www.rootsweb.com http://www.genealogy.org newsgroups: soc.genealogy.* --------------------------------------------------------------------------- W. Wesley Groleau (Wes) Office: 219-429-4923 Hughes Defense Communications (MS 10-40) Home: 219-471-7206 Fort Wayne, IN 46808 (Unix): wwgrol@pseserv3.fw.hac.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:10:54 -0700 To: genweb@ucsd.edu From: "Christopher D. Rumbaugh" Subject: Family History Finland on-line Status: R Content-Length: 759 Family History Finland is now up and running on the www! The URL is: http://www.open.org/rumcd/genweb/finn.html Kiitos! -chRISTOpher =09 [home] rumcd@open.org =09 [work] christopher.d.rumbaugh@state.or.us =20 [home page] http://www.open.org/rumcd Researching: Asunmaa, Billings, Borrell, Cannon, Chapman, Clinton, Coombs, Covert, Cox, Cullen, Cunningham, Dewoody, Drennan, Dyers, Enos, Fender, Filppula, Flora, Foster, Gossett, Higginbotham, Hill, Jerrell, Kahra, King,=20 Kurikka, K=E4ld, Lathom, Long, Lyon, Mills, Mitchell, Morin, de Muente, Mursula, Nokia, Preston, Redman, Riggs, Rumbaugh, Sarvikka,=20 Sheldon, Smith, Sparlin, Stephenson, Summers,=20 Tharp, Thiemann, Travers/Travis, Trembley,=20 West, Willis, Wilson, Zuege... From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Sep 22 20:15:24 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0v4tzv-0004D3C; Sun, 22 Sep 96 20:15:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox1.ucsd.edu) by chopin with SMTP internet(PP); Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:15:48 +0100 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07922 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609221856.LAA07922@UCSD.EDU> Received: from george by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 14:55:13 EDT Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "George Waller at Home" To: genweb@ucsd.edu Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:59:03 -0500 Subject: unique identifiers Reply-to: George Waller Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Status: R GenWebbers, There was a very interesting discussion here a month or so ago (and BTW, is there an archives of this list?) about unique identifiers. Unfortunately I only read bits and snatches of the discussion, so my comments below probably have been hashed and possibly dismissed. But since this list has been dead, here's some thoughts. Central Database of Globally Unique Identifiers: People: George Waller= #55555 Surnames: Smith=Smithe=Smyth=Schmidt = #88 Given names: John=Joao=Johann=Johnny=Jean = #44 Places: Mansfield CT = #34589 Other candidates for unique identifiers: time types, time, event types, events, relationships types, relationships, institutions, sources, confidence levels. Most important is People. How could such a central database on the Internet be created? Any ideas out there? George p.s. I made up the examples and numbers. Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:23:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199609231123.EAA19032@old.apple.com> X-Sender: tesler@mail.apple.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: tesler@apple.com (Larry Tesler) Subject: New standard for meta data Status: R GenWebbers, If I had intended this message as an ad for a product, I would not have posted it. But I regard it as a pitch for adoption of a standard--much as Gary's original GenWeb white paper advocated adoption of HTML. This standard can (and has been) adopted widely without necessarily buying anything from Apple. The standard I refer to is the HotSauce Meta Content Format that Apple recently announced (see attachment below). I believe that HotSauce MCF could be useful in the GenWeb project. Today, each genealogy data base program uses a proprietary file format. With HotSauce MCF, genealogy data base vendors can keep their own format but would be wise also to publish an MCF description of it. This would not be hard--for comparison, it took Yahoo! a few hours to describe their data base format in MCF. Posting the MCF decription of a genealogy data base format on the web would make the data in that data base accessible to any of a growing number of MCF-compliant tools. Today, for each proprietary genealogy data base format, a special GenWeb HTML generator has to be created . With HotSauce MCF, a single HTML generator could be written (say, in Lifelines) that inputs any data base's MCF description. This would not be hard--for comparison, it took XSoft's programmer 40 minutes [sic] to make that company's hyperbolic visualization able to input MCF descriptions such as those of the 100 non-Apple web sites described in MCF as of Sept. 18. Larry Tesler (tesler@apple.com), VP, AppleNet URL: http://hotsauce.apple.com P.S.: I apologize for including this entire press release below, but I thought the context would be useful. The section of greatest relevance to the GenWeb project is entitled, "HotSauce Connects Any Kind of View with Any Kind of Data". The HotSauce fly-through plug-in is not required for use of HotSauce MCF, but then, it could be cool to fly through your family tree... --- Apple Drives Initiative to Bring Structured Content to the Internet Apple's HotSauce Supported by Industry Partners INTEROP DOTCOM--Atlanta, GA--Sept. 18, 1996--Apple Computer, Inc. today announced growing industry support for its proposed open industry standard, HotSauce Meta Content Format (MCF), which allows developers to build data access tools that work with any kind of Internet or intranet-based data. Key industry endorsers include Netscape Communications Corporation, XSoft, a division of Xerox Corp., Excite, BigBook, and EveryWare Development Corporation. Apple previously announced that CNET: The Computer Network and Yahoo! have implementation plans for HotSauce MCF. In addition, Apple announced that over 75,000 copies of its HotSauce fly-through plug-in for Macintosh and Windows 95/NT platforms have been downloaded from its website. Over 100 websites have been mapped using HotSauce MCF to date, including such diverse Internet locations as PC Week Australia, Metrowerks, a leading development tools provider, MacUser magazine, the town of Marblehead, Massachusetts, in addition to Yahoo!, CNET, and others. Finally, several software developers have already developed HotSauce MCF tools and applications. The HotSauce MCF and HotSauce fly-through plug-in were formerly known by the code names MCF and Project X, respectively. "Enormous amounts of information from databases and other sources are appearing on both Internet and intranet websites," said Larry Tesler, vice president of Apple's AppleNet division. "Navigating through a complex website full of structured content such as linked HTML pages and searchable databases can be a daunting task. To ease this burden, Apple is taking a leadership role in defining and developing the HotSauce MCF standard." HotSauce Fly-Through Plug-In The HotSauce fly-through plug-in, a dramatic demonstration of the possibilities of the new standard, is a 3D information navigation system that enables new ways of viewing and exploring Internet information. The 3D interface makes the structure of web content immediately apparent to users, giving them an overview of a website or database. The HotSauce fly-through plug-in is distributed solely through the Apple website (http://hotsauce.apple.com) for a no-fee license for personal use. Implemented according to the Netscape plug-in standard, it works with popular web browsers, including Netscape Navigator for Windows and the Mac OS, Microsoft Internet Explorer for Windows and the Mac OS, and the browsing component of Apple's Cyberdog 1.1 suite on the Mac OS. HotSauce Connects Any Kind of View with Any Kind of Data Underlying this intuitive user interface is the advanced HotSauce MCF technology, which is an open standard for describing structured content. HotSauce MCF lets users connect any kind of view with any kind of data. "HotSauce MCF plays a similar role in the industry to the HTML standard," said Tesler. "As HTML is to the displayed page, HotSauce MCF is to structured content." HotSauce Meta Content Format is used to represent a wide range of information about content. It can describe information about content included in web pages, gopher and ftp files, email, and structured databases, allowing webmasters to make their content available through a variety of views to content consumers. HotSauce MCF is both platform and application independent. In addition to Internet and intranet data, HotSauce MCF can describe data on one's own computer and local area network, thereby enabling seamless integration of desktop and network content, not only in HTML browsers, but in a wide variety of access tools created by software developers operating in an open market. Mac OS users can download a research prototype application that demonstrates HotSauce desktop/Internet integration from the aforementioned Apple website. Industry Support for HotSauce A wide range of companies, including Internet content providers and application and tools software companies, announced today that they are endorsing the HotSauce MCF standard for bringing diverse structured content to the Internet. Netscape Communications Corporation gave support for the standard, saying it is an important addition to navigation tools for the Internet. "The HotSauce fly-through plug-in adds an important feature to Netscape Navigator's browsing capabilities," said Mike Homer, senior vice president of marketing at Netscape. XSoft, a Xerox New Enterprise Company, announced that it will support HotSauce in its Information Visualization technology. Available to software developers and content providers, XSoft visualizations, based on many years of Xerox PARC research, generate 3D graphical representations of information so users can easily navigate through complex data structures, such as websites and file directories. "With the explosive growth of web-based communications, the need for more powerful ways to work with large volumes of information is reaching a critical stage," said Mohan Trikha, vice president and general manager of XSoft. "Our support for this standard ensures XSoft's visualizations will be open and interoperable with other structured content that has been defined with HotSauce MCF." Excite, an Internet content provider, which has adopted HotSauce MCF and offers the HotSauce fly-through plug-in on its Search & Reviews website for Macintosh users, will be evaluating the technology for use on the entire Excite website. "We're thrilled about the potential of HotSauce," said Faulkner Hunt, director of business development, Excite. "The 3D view is very intuitive and works the way your brain works. We see this as an exciting new approach to visually displaying Internet information." BigBook, the nation's leading online Yellow Pages service, is working to leverage HotSauce to allow users to view information on 16 million U.S. businesses in a more compelling and intuitive way. "Having an open standard such as HotSauce MCF to define structured data on the Internet is a big step forward," said Kris Hagerman, president, BigBook. "We're excited about the potential of this technology to help our customers view large amounts of data quickly and easily." Finally, EveryWare Development Corporation, which offers Tango and Butler SQL products that allow webmasters to create powerful web-database solutions, announced that it will support HotSauce MCF in its products. "Since our products are database-oriented, we see a big advantage in defining content stored in databases under a common standard,"said Dan McKenzie, president and CEO, EveryWare Development. HotSauce is currently being evaluated by a number of database providers, Internet content providers, and tools and applications developers. Apple is evangelizing HotSauce adopters and pursuing a "sauce your site" campaign for Internet websites. Oracle Corp., based in Redwood Shores, Calif., is one of the companies evaluating HotSauce. "We are currently reviewing the technology to understand how it can be used with our products," said Bonnie Crater, vice president of the workgroup products division for Oracle. "For many applications, the ability to view data in visual layouts is a huge benefit to users." In addition, several third-party developers have developed HotSauce tools and applications implemented in C, Java, and other programming languages. These developers include Lightbulb Factory, Inc., New York, NY, which offers a free tool to automatically map a website with HotSauce, and a HotSauce directory, which lists all websites in a 3D format that are mapped with HotSauce; LuxusSoft, Germany, which offers BookMark2X, a tool to convert Netscape bookmarks into Apple's new HotSauce file format so that users can visually fly through bookmarks or a collection of web pages within the Netscape Navigator browser window; and Innovative Technology Consulting, which has released MCFTools, a Frontier suite that adds automatic HotSauce-generation capabilities to websites built in Frontier's website-building framework. Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:15:50 -0700 From: Brian Mavrogeorge Organization: Palladium Interactive, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Larry Tesler Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: New standard for meta data References: <199609231123.EAA19032@old.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R Larry Tesler wrote: >.. snip ... > The standard I refer to is the HotSauce Meta Content Format that Apple > recently announced ...snip.... Looks like HotSauce would be an interesting replacement for GEDCOM. Simply have developers register their particular format. -- ========================================================================== Brian Mavrogeorge, Executive Producer My sole opinions, Palladium Interactive, Inc. changed often You may NOT add me to a mailing list or send commercial solicitations!! Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:02:36 +1000 From: Esther Andrews Organization: LaTrobe University, Bendigo X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com> CC: GENWEB List Subject: Relational Databases and GenWeb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R I have just entered the GenWeb discussion group, and it seems I am 18 months behind the ape-ball. I have been playing around with Hypercard, exporting to HTML. Now, as part of my post-graduate studies, I am creating a relational database, perhaps with a CGI interface to generate Web pages. Have you had any experience with this? I know there are limitations with relational databases with respect to genealogy, but I am not aiming to replicate the complexity of the GEDCOM files. I am more interested in the flexibility available for GenWeb pages. To anyone in the mailing list: Apart from the requirement of providing 4 generations, what other requirements (particularly with respect to information content and format) are there for GenWeb pages? Where can I find a simple explanation of the mapping from GEDCOM to HTML? Must GenWeb pages exist as physical pages, or can they be generated from a database by a CGI? Is it assumed that pages will be generated by Ged2HTML, or are there other methods being used? Thanks for any information. Esther Andrews To: GenWeb@ucsd.edu From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:32:32 PDT Subject: You are tuned to GenWeb - Do Not Reply! Status: R Anyone receiving this message is one of nearly 800 people subscribed to the e-mail mailing list GENWEB. The purpose of this list is to facilitate the development of a linked, worldwide distributed genealogy database. (This is not a good place to post queries about individual research projects.) If this topic is not of interest to you ... here is how to unsubscribe: Send an e-mail message to listserv@ucsd.edu In the body of the message put the words: UNSUB GENWEB That's all! Do not reply to this message! Do not send these commands to genweb@ucsd.edu! Do not send me a message about unsubscribing! Just do it as outlined above. If you still want to read about the GenWeb, please point your WWW browser to the URL http://www.genweb.org/genweblist/ All current and archived messages are there for your perusal without cluttering your mailbox. For general background on the GenWeb project, please see the GenWeb proposal at URL http://www.genweb.org/gene/ Thanks, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computing Services Manager e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-1989* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-3939* *************************************************************************** From: "George Waller at Home" To: genweb@ucsd.edu Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:12:32 -0500 Subject: Who can do it? Reply-to: George Waller Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Status: R GenWebbers, I have a fairly good idea of how to build a worldwide linked genealogical database. Isn't the crux of the problem that we need a few central sites that we can count on? Then at the central site we have a master index of unique ids. The big one, of course, is a unique id for each identified human (ok so I'm speciesist). The ID can simply be a sequential number (I'll take 00000000005). As mentioned in an earlier post, there ought to be unique IDs for a lot of other "things" like locations, sources, names, events, etc etc. This is all one big relational (pun intended) database... so out of the 800 of us can't someone figure this out? Doesn't seem that hard to me. Have a central site with, both batch and manual processing, to capture input "humans" and output unique sequential IDs. Both manual and batch should include a matching algorithm to help avoid duplicates, but in the final analysis duplicates will occur and we, as genealogists, will need to de-dup thru standard research methods. George Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:14:46 -0500 To: George Waller , genweb@ucsd.edu From: Beau Sharbrough Subject: Re: Who can do it? Status: R At 12:12 AM 9/26/96 -0500, George Waller at Home wrote: >GenWebbers, > [snipped some here] ...Have a central site with, both batch and manual processing, >to capture input "humans" and output unique sequential IDs. Both >manual and batch should include a matching algorithm to help avoid >duplicates, but in the final analysis duplicates will occur and we, >as genealogists, will need to de-dup thru standard research methods. George, I'd like to have a look at the matching algorithm when it's done. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Beau Sharbrough The Aggie Players - beau@connect.net 50 years of theater at http://www.connect.net/beau Texas A&M University From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Sep 26 21:54:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0v6NRc-0004CzC; Thu, 26 Sep 96 21:54:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox2.ucsd.edu) by chopin with SMTP internet(PP); Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:54:05 +0100 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA05641 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bindmaster.zko.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA15687; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:21:06 -0700 Received: from ibgzko by zkons1.zko.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/28Oct95-0953AM) id AA07246; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:21:15 -0400 Received: by ibgzko.zko.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/17Nov95-0415PM) id AA15689; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:25:28 -0400 Sender: nozell@ibgzko.zko.dec.com Followup-To: genweb@UCSD.EDU To: George Waller Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Who can do it? Reply-To: nozell@rootsweb.com References: <199609260409.VAA25943@UCSD.EDU> From: Marc Nozell Date: 26 Sep 1996 16:25:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: "George Waller's message of Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:12:32 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Red Gnus v0.42/XEmacs 19.14 Status: R >>>>> "George" == George Waller at Home writes: George> GenWebbers, George> I have a fairly good idea of how to build a worldwide linked George> genealogical database. Isn't the crux of the problem that we need a George> few central sites that we can count on? Take a look at the RootsWeb Data Cooperative (www.rootsweb.com). They are offering various hosting services (mailing lists (including ROOTS-L), Roots Surname List, genealogy-related web hosting, the USGenWeb project, etc) at very reasonable rates and may be interested in this project as well. -marc -- Marc Nozell http://www.rootsweb.com/~nozell (genealogy stuff) From: Gordon Allison To: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:35:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb CC: GENWEB List Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.40) Status: R Date: 26 Sep 96 17:39:38 EDT From: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@CompuServe.COM> To: Esther Andrews Cc: GENWEB List Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb uFTi, my GEDCOM to HTML translator, uses a relational (MS Access) database. It is similar in concept to GED2HTML but for the PC platform. Roughly speaking, the tables are for: People - somewhat fundamental Families - ie linking table to link Mother, Father, Child Events - Birth, Death, Marriage, Graduation, First published on Internet etc Notes - Any comment which hasn't got a date associated Sources - How you know If you use Access, a file at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge/ERD.GIF gives a table structure of the main tables. As for how the GEDCOM gets assigned, I have tables of TAG translations, ie what the tag means and whether it is an event or note. Names, Sources and Relationships, are hard coded to look at the GEDCOM. At the moment sources do not refer to other sources but I may work on that in the future. Each Event or Note can have one subsidiary tag which is associated with it. For example the RELI tag might be a subsidiary to the MARR tag if you want to record the religion of someone when they marry. I suggest the GENWEB archives for reference. There are many discussions on the benefits of Static pages (eg uFTi or GED2HTML and for Dynamic pages. I am currently working on making uFTi able to work with a Windows NT Web Server to generate pages dynamically (on the fly). Currently the layout of pages is hard coded but the next version will be wholly configurable. As for a simple explanation of mpping GEDCOM to anything else (even other versions of GEDCOM), can you let me know if you find one :-) Nicholas Gordon Allison jackson@generation.net From: Gordon Allison To: Teresa Rozich Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:34:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb CC: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.40) Status: R Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:38:53 -0400 (EDT) To: Esther Andrews From: Teresa Rozich Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Well, I've been on GenWeb for a few months myself, and have yet to put someone's database online in HTML. I have created some database type info, such as a list of slaves in wills (and I'm looking for more info for that), that I would love to find an easier way to maintain this database. I know there are some Gedcom's on the web, in fact I use Family Gathering, which creates web pages for you, but I use Genweb more for the actual genealogy information regarding ALL families, not just HTML. At 12:02 PM 9/26/96 +1000, Esther Andrews wrote: >I have just entered the GenWeb discussion group, and it seems I am 18 >months behind the ape-ball. I have been playing around with >Hypercard, exporting to HTML. Now, as part of my post-graduate >studies, I am creating a relational database, perhaps with a CGI >interface to generate Web pages. Have you had any experience with >this? > >I know there are limitations with relational databases with respect to >genealogy, but I am not aiming to replicate the complexity of the >GEDCOM files. I am more interested in the flexibility available for >GenWeb pages. > >To anyone in the mailing list: > >Apart from the requirement of providing 4 generations, what other >requirements (particularly with respect to information content and >format) are there for GenWeb pages? > > >Where can I find a simple explanation of the mapping from GEDCOM to >HTML? > >Must GenWeb pages exist as physical pages, or can they be generated >from a database by a CGI? > >Is it assumed that pages will be generated by Ged2HTML, or are there >other methods being used? > >Thanks for any information. > >Esther Andrews > > > ****************************************************************** Teresa Maro Rozich Wthr1@aol.com wthr1@foto.infi.net KIMBALL/KIMBELL/KIMBRELL, et al. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2926 WARREN COUNTY, NC GENWEB http://www.lofthouse.com/warren/ ******************************************************************* Gordon Allison jackson@generation.net From: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@CompuServe.COM> To: Esther Andrews Cc: GENWEB List Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Message-ID: <960926213937_100020.1117_EHV88-3@CompuServe.COM> Status: R uFTi, my GEDCOM to HTML translator, uses a relational (MS Access) database. It is similar in concept to GED2HTML but for the PC platform. Roughly speaking, the tables are for: People - somewhat fundamental Families - ie linking table to link Mother, Father, Child Events - Birth, Death, Marriage, Graduation, First published on Internet etc Notes - Any comment which hasn't got a date associated Sources - How you know If you use Access, a file at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge/ERD.GIF gives a table structure of the main tables. As for how the GEDCOM gets assigned, I have tables of TAG translations, ie what the tag means and whether it is an event or note. Names, Sources and Relationships, are hard coded to look at the GEDCOM. At the moment sources do not refer to other sources but I may work on that in the future. Each Event or Note can have one subsidiary tag which is associated with it. For example the RELI tag might be a subsidiary to the MARR tag if you want to record the religion of someone when they marry. I suggest the GENWEB archives for reference. There are many discussions on the benefits of Static pages (eg uFTi or GED2HTML and for Dynamic pages. I am currently working on making uFTi able to work with a Windows NT Web Server to generate pages dynamically (on the fly). Currently the layout of pages is hard coded but the next version will be wholly configurable. As for a simple explanation of mpping GEDCOM to anything else (even other versions of GEDCOM), can you let me know if you find one :-) Nicholas From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Sep 27 01:55:22 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0v6RD7-0004CzC; Fri, 27 Sep 96 01:55:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox2.ucsd.edu) by chopin with SMTP internet(PP); Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:53:46 +0100 Received: from mh004.infi.net (mh004.infi.net [198.22.1.119]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA20905 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wthr1 by mh004.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id UAA01268; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609270038.UAA01268@mh004.infi.net> X-Sender: wthr1@foto.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Esther Andrews From: Teresa Rozich Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Status: R Well, I've been on GenWeb for a few months myself, and have yet to put someone's database online in HTML. I have created some database type info, such as a list of slaves in wills (and I'm looking for more info for that), that I would love to find an easier way to maintain this database. I know there are some Gedcom's on the web, in fact I use Family Gathering, which creates web pages for you, but I use Genweb more for the actual genealogy information regarding ALL families, not just HTML. At 12:02 PM 9/26/96 +1000, Esther Andrews wrote: >I have just entered the GenWeb discussion group, and it seems I am 18 >months behind the ape-ball. I have been playing around with >Hypercard, exporting to HTML. Now, as part of my post-graduate >studies, I am creating a relational database, perhaps with a CGI >interface to generate Web pages. Have you had any experience with >this? > >I know there are limitations with relational databases with respect to >genealogy, but I am not aiming to replicate the complexity of the >GEDCOM files. I am more interested in the flexibility available for >GenWeb pages. > >To anyone in the mailing list: > >Apart from the requirement of providing 4 generations, what other >requirements (particularly with respect to information content and >format) are there for GenWeb pages? > > >Where can I find a simple explanation of the mapping from GEDCOM to >HTML? > >Must GenWeb pages exist as physical pages, or can they be generated >from a database by a CGI? > >Is it assumed that pages will be generated by Ged2HTML, or are there >other methods being used? > >Thanks for any information. > >Esther Andrews > > > ****************************************************************** Teresa Maro Rozich Wthr1@aol.com wthr1@foto.infi.net KIMBALL/KIMBELL/KIMBRELL, et al. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2926 WARREN COUNTY, NC GENWEB http://www.lofthouse.com/warren/ ******************************************************************* Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:15:14 +0100 From: Mark Dooling Organization: Informix Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.10 9000/777) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Teresa Rozich Cc: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb References: <199609270038.UAA01268@mh004.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R Guys I've been following this thread with interest because I work for a relational database software company (Informix software) and we have a product currently called Illustra which is effectively the next generation of database in that it combines traditional relational technology with object-oriented technology. What is most interesting about this product though is the fact it lends itself extremely well to web-page development. I don't want to start making a pitch here (I'm not a salesman, I work in technical support) so, I suggest that people simply go have a look at some demos at http://www.illustra.com. Let me know what you think. I already have some pages on the web myself and next year am planning to set up a server. The chances are I would like to implement this software on the server if I can because I know it's good and has fabulous potential. If I do this then I would be willing to help out the people on this alias with establishing a serious object-relational genealogy database. So, as I say, have a think about it and let me know what you think. Regards -- MARK DOOLING Team Leader Informix Technical Support UK/MEA +44 1784 240333 mailto:doom@informix.com Web sites:- http://www.ftech.net/~doom http://ripper.wildnet.co.uk Teresa Rozich wrote: > > Well, I've been on GenWeb for a few months myself, and have yet to put > someone's database online in HTML. I have created some database type info, > such as a list of slaves in wills (and I'm looking for more info for that), > that I would love to find an easier way to maintain this database. I know > there are some Gedcom's on the web, in fact I use Family Gathering, which > creates web pages for you, but I use Genweb more for the actual genealogy > information regarding ALL families, not just HTML. > > At 12:02 PM 9/26/96 +1000, Esther Andrews wrote: > >I have just entered the GenWeb discussion group, and it seems I am 18 > >months behind the ape-ball. I have been playing around with > >Hypercard, exporting to HTML. Now, as part of my post-graduate > >studies, I am creating a relational database, perhaps with a CGI > >interface to generate Web pages. Have you had any experience with > >this? > > > >I know there are limitations with relational databases with respect to > >genealogy, but I am not aiming to replicate the complexity of the > >GEDCOM files. I am more interested in the flexibility available for > >GenWeb pages. > > > >To anyone in the mailing list: > > > >Apart from the requirement of providing 4 generations, what other > >requirements (particularly with respect to information content and > >format) are there for GenWeb pages? > > > > > >Where can I find a simple explanation of the mapping from GEDCOM to > >HTML? > > > >Must GenWeb pages exist as physical pages, or can they be generated > >from a database by a CGI? > > > >Is it assumed that pages will be generated by Ged2HTML, or are there > >other methods being used? > > > >Thanks for any information. > > > >Esther Andrews > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > Teresa Maro Rozich > Wthr1@aol.com > wthr1@foto.infi.net > KIMBALL/KIMBELL/KIMBRELL, et al. > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2926 > WARREN COUNTY, NC GENWEB > http://www.lofthouse.com/warren/ > ******************************************************************* Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:03:51 -0500 To: Mark Dooling From: Beau Sharbrough Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Status: R At 09:15 AM 9/27/96 +0100, Mark Dooling wrote: >If I do this then I would be willing to help out the people >on this alias with establishing a serious object-relational genealogy >database. So, as I say, have a think about it and let me know what you >think. Mark, I'm working with a GENTECH/FGS joint effort called the Lexicon Working Group. Presently, we are working to product ERDs for genealogical data. The group consists of a combination of expert genealogists and expert computerists. The two groups often speak different languages, and it's great to see them try to cooperate for the good of the group. We are hoping to release a data model during 1Q97. We had a terrific meeting in Rochester last month, and are working on line to further the effort. If you want to be kept abreast of the developments, let me know. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Beau Sharbrough The Aggie Players - beau@connect.net 50 years of theater at http://www.connect.net/beau Texas A&M University From: Gordon Allison To: Beau Sharbrough Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:05:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb CC: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.40) Status: R Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:03:51 -0500 To: Mark Dooling From: Beau Sharbrough Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List At 09:15 AM 9/27/96 +0100, Mark Dooling wrote: >If I do this then I would be willing to help out the people >on this alias with establishing a serious object-relational genealogy >database. So, as I say, have a think about it and let me know what you >think. Mark, I'm working with a GENTECH/FGS joint effort called the Lexicon Working Group. Presently, we are working to product ERDs for genealogical data. The group consists of a combination of expert genealogists and expert computerists. The two groups often speak different languages, and it's great to see them try to cooperate for the good of the group. We are hoping to release a data model during 1Q97. We had a terrific meeting in Rochester last month, and are working on line to further the effort. If you want to be kept abreast of the developments, let me know. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Beau Sharbrough The Aggie Players - beau@connect.net 50 years of theater at http://www.connect.net/beau Texas A&M University Gordon Allison jackson@generation.net From: Gordon Allison To: Gordon Allison Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:37:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb CC: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.40) Status: R From: "Gordon Allison" To: Beau Sharbrough Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:05:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Priority: normal Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:03:51 -0500 To: Mark Dooling From: Beau Sharbrough Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List At 09:15 AM 9/27/96 +0100, Mark Dooling wrote: >If I do this then I would be willing to help out the people >on this alias with establishing a serious object-relational genealogy >database. So, as I say, have a think about it and let me know what you >think. Mark, I'm working with a GENTECH/FGS joint effort called the Lexicon Working Group. Presently, we are working to product ERDs for genealogical data. The group consists of a combination of expert genealogists and expert computerists. The two groups often speak different languages, and it's great to see them try to cooperate for the good of the group. We are hoping to release a data model during 1Q97. We had a terrific meeting in Rochester last month, and are working on line to further the effort. If you want to be kept abreast of the developments, let me know. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Beau Sharbrough The Aggie Players - beau@connect.net 50 years of theater at http://www.connect.net/beau Texas A&M University Gordon Allison jackson@generation.net To: nozell@rootsweb.com cc: George Waller , genweb@UCSD.EDU Reply-to: "Dr. Brian Leverich" Subject: Re: Who can do it? In-reply-to: Your message of 26 Sep 1996 16:25:28 EDT. Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:35:48 -0700 From: Brian Leverich Status: R -- Your message was: (from "Marc Nozell") > >>>>> "George" == George Waller at Home writes: > > George> GenWebbers, > George> I have a fairly good idea of how to build a worldwide > George> linked genealogical database. Isn't the crux of the > George> problem that we need a few central sites that we can > George> count on? > > Take a look at the RootsWeb Data Cooperative (www.rootsweb.com). They > are offering various hosting services (mailing lists (including > ROOTS-L), Roots Surname List, genealogy-related web hosting, the > USGenWeb project, etc) at very reasonable rates and may be interested > in this project as well. ------------------ RootsWeb would definitely be willing to host GenWeb databases. At risk of sounding commercial, we can't do it for free; however, we have done every clever hack we can think of to minimize costs. -B -- Dr. Brian Leverich Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative http://www.rootsweb.com/ P.O. Box 6798, Frazier Park, CA 93222-6798 leverich@rootsweb.com From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Sep 28 03:20:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0v6p0h-0004D0C; Sat, 28 Sep 96 03:20:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox2.ucsd.edu) by chopin with SMTP internet(PP); Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:20:27 +0100 Received: from mh004.infi.net (mh004.infi.net [198.22.1.119]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19883 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wthr1 by mh004.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id WAA03644; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609280207.WAA03644@mh004.infi.net> X-Sender: wthr1@foto.infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: urkk02f@prodigy.com From: Teresa Rozich Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Cc: Esther Andrews , N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com>, GENWEB List Status: R By the way folks, that's a brainfart! Meant not just "Gedcom" not HTML in that last line! Sorry to confuse you all! ;) At 08:38 PM 9/26/96 -0400, Teresa Rozich wrote: > >Well, I've been on GenWeb for a few months myself, and have yet to put >someone's database online in HTML. I have created some database type info, >such as a list of slaves in wills (and I'm looking for more info for that), >that I would love to find an easier way to maintain this database. I know >there are some Gedcom's on the web, in fact I use Family Gathering, which >creates web pages for you, but I use Genweb more for the actual genealogy >information regarding ALL families, not just HTML. > > > >At 12:02 PM 9/26/96 +1000, Esther Andrews wrote: >>I have just entered the GenWeb discussion group, and it seems I am 18 >>months behind the ape-ball. I have been playing around with >>Hypercard, exporting to HTML. Now, as part of my post-graduate >>studies, I am creating a relational database, perhaps with a CGI >>interface to generate Web pages. Have you had any experience with >>this? >> >>I know there are limitations with relational databases with respect to >>genealogy, but I am not aiming to replicate the complexity of the >>GEDCOM files. I am more interested in the flexibility available for >>GenWeb pages. >> >>To anyone in the mailing list: >> >>Apart from the requirement of providing 4 generations, what other >>requirements (particularly with respect to information content and >>format) are there for GenWeb pages? >> >> >>Where can I find a simple explanation of the mapping from GEDCOM to >>HTML? >> >>Must GenWeb pages exist as physical pages, or can they be generated >>from a database by a CGI? >> >>Is it assumed that pages will be generated by Ged2HTML, or are there >>other methods being used? >> >>Thanks for any information. >> >>Esther Andrews >> >> >> > > > ****************************************************************** Teresa Maro Rozich Wthr1@aol.com wthr1@foto.infi.net KIMBALL/KIMBELL/KIMBRELL, et al. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2926 WARREN COUNTY, NC GENWEB http://www.lofthouse.com/warren/ ******************************************************************* From: JohnR238@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA25558 for genweb@ucsd.edu; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 08:55:49 -0400 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 08:55:49 -0400 Message-ID: <960928085548_295509589@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: Who can do it? Status: R In a message dated 96-09-27 20:42:04 EDT, you write: << RootsWeb would definitely be willing to host GenWeb databases. At risk of sounding commercial, we can't do it for free; however, we have done every clever hack we can think of to minimize costs. -B >> I think the time has come for us to take a good hard look at the system cost to establish and maintain such an index data base - regardless of the system that actually ends up hosting it. Certainly RootsWeb is best positioned at this point both in terms of cost, focus of their efforts, and prior contribution to the genealogy community. I had a discussion with my programmers and system admin. people this week regarding the creation and maintenance of a genweb index and we are starting to draw up some estimates. Part of the problem we've had on the GenWeb list over the past year or so is defining the true scope of this project, but I think after looking at the current efforts, I have an idea of the kinds of issues we face. I propose the following structure. Record length of approx. 75 bytes per record times 20 million names in 1997 to grow to 100 million over 3 years. The structure of the data record has not been finalized, but we can come to a concensus shortly. (rereading this before sending, I may be orders of magnitude low now. I have approx. 4 million names to contribute, as does Gene Stark, Cliff Manis, Brian Mavrogeorge, Brian Leverich, and Michael Cooley. I'm not speaking for these other guys or volunteering their data, but there's 30 million names already and we haven't started collecting yet (grin)) This index will have a secondary "URL" file tag to show the current URL of the data record. As data migrates from server to server, this will allow updating of 1 record to reflect the status of up to 100,000 records at one time. The "URL" file will be approx. 100 bytes (structure to be finalized) by 250,000 records in 1997 to grow to 1 million over 3 years. On-line query of the data base via WWW browsers. Update of the data base by volunteers using a WWW browser. Batch processing of data sets against the index both to identify duplicates and aid research. We thus have 2 issues to address 1) the system requirements to host such an index 2) the personnel requirements to manage and maintain it I don't think we can do either for FREE or using entirely volunteer efforts, but until we know the cost we can't establish a goal - actually we can set a goal, we all know what that is, but we can't establish a way to get there. John Rigdon National Coordinator The USGenWeb Project http://www.usgenweb.com From: JohnR238@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 08:55:49 -0400 Message-ID: <960928085548_295509589@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Who can do it? Content-Type: text Status: R In a message dated 96-09-27 20:42:04 EDT, you write: << RootsWeb would definitely be willing to host GenWeb databases. At risk of sounding commercial, we can't do it for free; however, we have done every clever hack we can think of to minimize costs. -B >> I think the time has come for us to take a good hard look at the system cost to establish and maintain such an index data base - regardless of the system that actually ends up hosting it. Certainly RootsWeb is best positioned at this point both in terms of cost, focus of their efforts, and prior contribution to the genealogy community. I had a discussion with my programmers and system admin. people this week regarding the creation and maintenance of a genweb index and we are starting to draw up some estimates. Part of the problem we've had on the GenWeb list over the past year or so is defining the true scope of this project, but I think after looking at the current efforts, I have an idea of the kinds of issues we face. I propose the following structure. Record length of approx. 75 bytes per record times 20 million names in 1997 to grow to 100 million over 3 years. The structure of the data record has not been finalized, but we can come to a concensus shortly. (rereading this before sending, I may be orders of magnitude low now. I have approx. 4 million names to contribute, as does Gene Stark, Cliff Manis, Brian Mavrogeorge, Brian Leverich, and Michael Cooley. I'm not speaking for these other guys or volunteering their data, but there's 30 million names already and we haven't started collecting yet (grin)) This index will have a secondary "URL" file tag to show the current URL of the data record. As data migrates from server to server, this will allow updating of 1 record to reflect the status of up to 100,000 records at one time. The "URL" file will be approx. 100 bytes (structure to be finalized) by 250,000 records in 1997 to grow to 1 million over 3 years. On-line query of the data base via WWW browsers. Update of the data base by volunteers using a WWW browser. Batch processing of data sets against the index both to identify duplicates and aid research. We thus have 2 issues to address 1) the system requirements to host such an index 2) the personnel requirements to manage and maintain it I don't think we can do either for FREE or using entirely volunteer efforts, but until we know the cost we can't establish a goal - actually we can set a goal, we all know what that is, but we can't establish a way to get there. John Rigdon National Coordinator The USGenWeb Project http://www.usgenweb.com Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:19:34 +0100 To: libdem-l@dircon.co.uk From: "J.P.McCreesh" Subject: Re: Thanks but no thanks In-Reply-To: <9609270959.AA03009@nyquist.diskworld> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.00 Sender: owner-libdem-l@dircon.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: libdem-l@dircon.co.uk Status: R In article <9609270959.AA03009@nyquist.diskworld>, Jeff M Hannan writes >Why have I just received the last three months mailing >list messages again? So it's not my software going berserk and marking everything as 'unread'... John -- J.P.McCreesh - http://www.pines.demon.co.uk/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Sep 28 20:22:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0v74y1-0004CxC; Sat, 28 Sep 96 20:22:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox2.ucsd.edu) by chopin with SMTP internet(PP); Sat, 28 Sep 1996 20:22:07 +0100 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07187 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: CTMCB@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA14730 for genweb@ucsd.edu; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:10:16 -0400 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:10:16 -0400 Message-ID: <960928151015_532247054@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: unwanted mail Status: R In addition to interesting (if arcane) discussions of various databases, I have recently been flooded with useless stuff. Today, alone, I got at least a half dozen unsubscribe messages and some screens that seem filled with nothing but computer codes: not a message in a CD full! Is there some way to keep this kind of mail from being routed to me? If it is coming to me, it must be going to everyone else. ctmcbride@aol.com From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Sep 29 17:27:34 1996 Return-Path: Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with esmtp (Smail3.1.93 #9) id m0v7OiG-0004D0C; Sun, 29 Sep 96 17:27:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by chopin with SMTP uk (PP); Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:24:00 +0100 Received: from UCSD.EDU (actually host mailbox1.ucsd.edu) by sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk with Internet SMTP (PP); Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:25:41 +0100 Received: from www.mauigateway.com (unix.mauigateway.com [205.166.249.4]) by UCSD.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA03783 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 01:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgate-139.mauigateway.com (mgate-139.mauigateway.com [205.166.249.139]) by www.mauigateway.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA25257; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:13:54 -1000 (HST) Message-ID: <324E2EF6.5CE9@usa.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:10:30 -1000 From: RW Reply-To: rw@usa.net Organization: Activity Central of Maui X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "J. Michael Frost" CC: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: (no subject) References: <324D6FB5.41E@cris.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R To unsubscribe from this list, address a message to "listserv@ucsd.edu" and put in the body of the message "unsub genweb". If this does not result in your being removed from the list, you may inquire of postmaster@ucsd.edu the reason your unsub command does not work. The frequent reason is that you are subscribed under a different name than your mail gives as your return address. Hope that helps. -- _/~~~~/ _\ _/ Email: rw@usa.net _/____/ _\ _/ Site..: http://www.mauigateway.com/~rw _/ _\ _\ /\ _/ _/ _\ _\_/ \_/ Quote...: "TO KNOW MAUI IS TO LOVE MAUI" Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609292202.SAA02277@Nimbus.CAM.ORG> X-Sender: beaur@pop.hip.cam.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: beaur@CAM.ORG (Denis Beauregard) Subject: List take over ? Status: R Is it possible that someone is on purpose trying to corrupt this list by sending unsub messages with forged addresses ? Those messages are a life record and 10 or 20 times too numerous compared to previous periods. Denis ### Denis Beauregard, genealogiste amateur, Internet: beaur@cam.org ### Page web de genealogie: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/index.html ### Genealogy Web page: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/welcome.html ### Sujets: Quebec, France, Acadie, experts francophones, etc. Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:00:59 -0500 (CDT) From: edward anthony miner X-Sender: e-miner@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu To: Denis Beauregard cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: List take over ? In-Reply-To: <199609292202.SAA02277@Nimbus.CAM.ORG> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Maybe it has something to do with the fact that all the people who so righteously claim they know exactly how to unsubscribe from this list, in fact haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about. Genweb suffers from some sort of split personality disorder--you keep getting it, but when you complain, it says it dosen't have the slightest idea who you are. I will say that my left middle finger has been getting lots of exercise at the delete key over the past year and a half. On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Denis Beauregard wrote: > Is it possible that someone is on purpose trying to > corrupt this list by sending unsub messages with > forged addresses ? Those messages are a life record > and 10 or 20 times too numerous compared to previous > periods. > > Denis > ### Denis Beauregard, genealogiste amateur, Internet: beaur@cam.org > ### Page web de genealogie: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/index.html > ### Genealogy Web page: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/welcome.html > ### Sujets: Quebec, France, Acadie, experts francophones, etc. > > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:20:37 +1000 From: Esther Andrews Organization: LaTrobe University, Bendigo X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Tompsett Subject: Re: Relational Databases and GenWeb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R Thanks for your response. I was very embarrassed to find that I had written 'ape-ball' instead of 'eight-ball' to the mailing list. :-7 I have been slogging my way through archived mail, and am slowly finding that many of the issues I am looking at have been discussed. I was further embarrassed to find that the discussion I had sparked was labelled as 'arcane'. This word was not even in my dictionary, and I was unsure how insulted to feel (until I found the word in my thesaurus)! Esther Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Denis Beauregard To: Genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: To reduce numerous UNSUB messages In-Reply-To: <01BBAEA1.59C570E0@Ivanova.infowest.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R A suggestion I have received: to put a message as the last line saying: To be removed from this list: send to listserv@ucsd.edu this: UNSUB GENWEB Also, to add to subject as a prefix: GENWEB i.e. This message would show up as: GENWEB: To reduce numerous UNSUB messages And I would like to know how to do the same for my own GEN-FR-L and GEN-FR-L lists which are at eWorld. Denis ### Denis Beauregard, genealogiste amateur, Internet: beaur@cam.org ### Page web de genealogie: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/index.html ### Genealogy Web page: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/welcome.html ### Sujets: Quebec, France, Acadie, experts francophones, etc. Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:37:32 +0000 From: "Terrance E. Sterkel, P.E." Reply-To: tsterkel@lucent.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Denis Beauregard Cc: Genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: Sorry: To reduce numerous UNSUB messages References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R Sorry, if any of that REALLY WORKED, you would not be getting this message, as I unsubscribed at least 10 TIMES, at still got your message. terry Denis Beauregard wrote: > > A suggestion I have received: > > to put a message as the last line saying: > > To be removed from this list: send to listserv@ucsd.edu this: UNSUB GENWEB > > Also, to add to subject as a prefix: GENWEB i.e. > > This message would show up as: > GENWEB: To reduce numerous UNSUB messages > > And I would like to know how to do the same for my own GEN-FR-L and > GEN-FR-L lists which are at eWorld. > > Denis > > ### Denis Beauregard, genealogiste amateur, Internet: beaur@cam.org > ### Page web de genealogie: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/index.html > ### Genealogy Web page: http://www.cam.org/~beaur/gen/welcome.html > ### Sujets: Quebec, France, Acadie, experts francophones, etc. -- t.e.sterkel Road [Warrior|Mendicant] tsterkel@[lucent.com|worldnet.att.net] Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:16:12 +0000 From: "Terrance E. Sterkel, P.E." Reply-To: tsterkel@lucent.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bayerl , genweb@ucsd.edu Cc: beaur@cam.org Subject: Re: Sorry: To reduce numerous UNSUB messages References: <324FBF0C.4F8A@lucent.com> <32500838.6EEA@zk3.dec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R yep, all 10 times, and twice this AM. Andy Bayerl wrote: > > Terrance E. Sterkel, P.E. wrote: > > > > Sorry, > > > > if any of that REALLY WORKED, you would not be getting this message, > > as I unsubscribed at least 10 TIMES, at still got your message. > > > > Did you send the UNSUB to listserv@ucsd.edu? > > The big mistake that everyone seems to make is to send them to > genweb@ucsd.edu. (It owuld be nice if a filter there would find > the UNSUB, but it turns out that most of these kind of mailing lists > have a separate address for doing the add/delete of names.) > > /andy -- t.e.sterkel Road [Warrior|Mendicant] tsterkel@[lucent.com|worldnet.att.net] From: "W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)" Subject: Re: To reduce numerous UNSUB messages To: genweb@ucsd.edu, gedcom-l@listserv.nodak.edu Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 13:31:31 EST In-Reply-To: ; from "Denis Beauregard" at Sep 30, 96 11:37 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R :> A suggestion I have received: :> to put a message as the last line saying: :> To be removed from this list: send to listserv@ucsd.edu this: UNSUB GENWEB Also, consider upgrading to a listproc that can be told to treat message with the command in the Subject line the same as if the command were in the body. Also: For each incoming message to the list (not to the listserv): Syntax check the message as if it were to the listserv. If every line is a legal listserv command then if there is only one command and it is UNSUB or equivalent then "Just Do It" else send a message to the originator asking them to re-submit it to the correct address end if else re-dend the message to the list end if I know that list owners normally cannot do this sort of thing, but list can send it to the author of the listproc software as a request for new features. :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- W. Wesley Groleau (Wes) Office: 219-429-4923 Hughes Defense Communications (MS 10-40) Home: 219-471-7206 Fort Wayne, IN 46808 (Unix): wwgrol@pseserv3.fw.hac.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:25:28 -0600 From: smcgee@sol.slcc.edu (Scott McGee \(Personal\)) Message-Id: <9609302025.AA06395@sol.slcc.edu.> To: e-miner@students.uiuc.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: List take over ? Status: R edward anthony miner complains: > >Maybe it has something to do with the fact that all the people who so >righteously claim they know exactly how to unsubscribe from this list, in >fact haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about. Genweb >suffers from some sort of split personality disorder--you keep getting >it, but when you complain, it says it dosen't have the slightest idea who >you are. I will say that my left middle finger has been getting lots of >exercise at the delete key over the past year and a half. Or maybe it is because your machine name or site organization has changed so that the server sees you as being from somewhere else (by ITS definition) and won't let you FORGE (again, by its definition) an unsubscribe for someone else. If this is the case, you can go to the old machine (if possible) and get unsubscribed fairly easily if site names haven't changed. If the site has changed, you may have to actually read the instructions that server will provide on how to unsubscribe. You might actually have to end up contacting the list owner (but not by posting here!) if you can't resolve it with the list server. (I've had to do all of the above, including finding old machines to send the unsub from, figuring out how to tell it I was really me even after the site had changed layout so that there was no way to send from where it thought I lived, up to having to contact the list owner when I suddenly lost access to an account from which I was subscribed and had to use a different site.) Scott Scott McGee: Salt Lake Community College Webmaster | When in danger, Email: smcgee@sol.slcc.edu (Scott McGee) | or in doubt, Web: http://www.slcc.edu/infotech/webmaster.html | run in circles, My opinions may differ from those of the College. | scream and shout. Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:15:27 -0700 (MST) Subject: Manual Intervention In-reply-to: <199609302053.NAA17972@kinsey.fia.net> X-Sender: fieg1@general3.asu.edu To: genweb@ucsd.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Status: R Maybe this is naive, but could a real, live human being be assigned the task of monitoring UNSUBSCRIBE messages and processing them? Maybe this person could also become the sole addressee for such messages. Bob To: fieg@asu.edu cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU, "Dr. Brian Leverich" Reply-to: "Dr. Brian Leverich" Subject: Re: Manual Intervention In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:15:27 PDT. Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:27:25 -0700 From: Brian Leverich Status: R -- Your message was: (from "fieg@asu.edu") > Maybe this is naive, but could a real, live human being be > assigned the task of monitoring UNSUBSCRIBE messages and > processing them? > > Maybe this person could also become the sole addressee for such > messages. > > Bob ------------------ It might make more sense to have a real, live human being screening the *subscribes*. By definition, anyone who should be on this list should know how to unsubscribe themselves. Cheer, B. -- Dr. Brian Leverich Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative http://www.rootsweb.com/ P.O. Box 6798, Frazier Park, CA 93222-6798 leverich@rootsweb.com To: GenWeb@ucsd.edu From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:08:10 PDT Subject: GenWeb List Administration Status: R To all GenWeb mailing list subscribers: As the size of the list grows, so does the level of "noise" messages. The number of "unsub" messages increase whenever we start talking about genealogy. Of course, we all know those unsub messages must be sent to the list server, but that 'bot' looks at the return address and if the subscriber subbed under another address it will not recognize the unsub messages. For those who stick with us, thanks for your patience. Some have suggested major re-writes of the listserver software, but that is outside my control; I'm just a list manager. Nevertheless, I monitor the list for both content and administration, contributing to both. I have hand-deleted 25 subscribers over the last 24 hours who haven't been able to do it themselves. In many cases, I had to examine the subscriber list to see how the person is subscribed, then delete that address. I will be away from my usual environs for the next 20 days but plan to check in frequently. If there erupts again another storm of UNSUB messages, I may not be able to intervene before the list melts down. Should anyone be willing to be deputized with the commands to UNSUB another subscriber on this list, please e-mail me by Tuesday and I will loan you the keys to the kingdom in my absence. There are very important topics to discuss and administration of mailing lists is not really among them. Again, thanks for your patience, suggestions, and encouragement. Towards the GenWeb 2000 Goal, Gary