From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 15:31:51 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA04925 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:31:50 -0800 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [198.4.7.7]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA25535 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:31:47 -0800 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA29757; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:31:46 -0500 Date: 09 Jan 96 18:29:56 EST From: N Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com> To: "(unknown)" Subject: Linking HTML Message-ID: <960109232955_100020.1117_EHV47-1@CompuServe.COM> I am new to the list but have been working in parallel for some time. Tom Wetmore has expanded on the idea to link databases and suggests we use symbolic roots to the url, and I assume specifying the appropriate page (and bookmark within the page) after the symbol so I guess a link would be something like SYMB1/page_1.html#fred or SYMB1/person_99.html where SYMB1 is expanded in the page. There are three difficulties we need to address. 1. How do we store the symbolic name - presumably the GEDCOM file will need to hold translations, something like 0 @SURL1@ LINK 1 NAME Nicholas Oughtibridge's home page 1 HURL http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge/ and 2 in the body we need to have a link to the page required eg 1 LURL 2 SYMB @1@ 2 PAGE @P1.HTM@ It should be noted that the second half could be any tail to an URL, including one to query a CGI program or any other search tool. 3. Which programs are likely to support the extensions - I am willing to extend mine if appropriate. With reference to the suggestion that only a few pages would be linked for reference to other research, this is true however there is a good chance that I do not want to research all of the descendants of Thomas Oughtibridge who died in 1682 where as my dim and distant cousins may. This is particularly more relevant for the descendants of his grandfather who moved to Bermuda from Yorkshire, UK. I have little chance of researching the Bermuda lines but would be delighted to link to them. Thomas' descendants as I know them are available at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge/P106.HTM They are published using uFTi, a program I have developed. I guess the next things for us to do are: 1. Define a standard 2. Store links 3. Store symbols to databases 4. Publish and be damned Comments welcome. Nicholas Oughtibridge From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 17:09:56 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA05098 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:09:55 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA17031 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:10:35 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA09857; Tue, 9 Jan 96 20:08:40 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA15029; Tue, 9 Jan 96 20:10:35 EST Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 20:10:35 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601100110.AA15029@beltway> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Linking HTML Nicholas [edited] (>): >Tom expanded on an idea to link databases and suggested symbolic roots to >the URL, I assume specifying the page and bookmark within page after the >symbol; something like: > SYMB1/page_1.html#fred or SYMB1/person_99.html >where SYMB1 is expanded in the page. I was a little sloppy in what I wrote, but you have captured what I meant. I was thinking of lines something like: 0 @I123@ INDI ... 1 LURL wdbase ttwsr ... meaning a link to record "ttwsr" in database "wdbase." There would be another record in the database somewhere that might have something like: 0 @X123@ URLMAP 1 MAP 2 SYMB wdbase 2 DEFN http://genealogy.org/~ttw/ancestry.html# 1 MAP ... I'm uncomfortable whether the link should be to a record in a database or to a URL. We may have to support both ideas. I'm also uncomfortable about having the link be to a specific record key, e.g., 1 LURL wdbase I136 where @I136@ is assumed to be a pointer to a record in wdbase. This is because database record keys like I136 are assigned by the database program and not by the user. Another problem to deal with. >There are three difficulties we need to address. >1. How to store the symbolic name - presumably the GEDCOM file will need to >hold translations, something like > 0 @SURL1@ LINK > 1 NAME Nicholas Oughtibridge's home page > 1 HURL http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge/ Yes, this works also. I had just assumed to put all the mapping information into a single record; your suggestion is to have one record per map, and have the regular records point to the mapping record. Functionally equivalent, but I prefer my approach because 1) there is only one mapping record to edit and 2) I never have to refer to the key of that single record because there is only one (a bit of a lie). >2. in the body we need to have a link to the page required eg > 1 LURL > 2 SYMB @1@ > 2 PAGE @P1.HTM@ Functionally equivalent, but here's where I would have something like: 1 LURL nickhome P1.HTM >It should be noted that the second half could be any tail to an URL, >including one to query a CGI program or any other search tool. Good point. >3. Which programs support the extensions - I am willing to extend mine LifeLines. >uFTi is a program I have developed. There is probably interest in this. Can you give a brief description? >I guess the next things for us to do are: >1. Define a standard The biggie. >2. Store links >3. Store symbols to databases >4. Publish and be damned The littleies. Nice to hear from you. Tom Wetmore From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 17:32:19 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA05135 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:32:19 -0800 Received: from dragon.ti.com (dragon.ti.com [192.94.94.61]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03428 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:33:54 -0800 Received: from dad_sun ([156.117.138.45]) by dragon.ti.com (8.6.12/) with ESMTP id TAA29807 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:34:40 -0600 Received: from 156.117.138.61 (mbr.dadd.ti.com [156.117.138.61]) by dad_sun (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA10400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:32:01 -0600 To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: mbr@dadd.ti.com (Martin Roberts) Subject: Re: Linking Databases Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:27:04 Message-ID: In article ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) writes: >I'd opt for symbolic in order to handle changes in servers, databases >coming and going and so on. >I would use a symbolic name for each database that I linked my own data to, >and then I would maintain a single record which kept the maps between the >symbolic database names and the complete URLs. Since I use LifeLines I >would simply add a new record to my database to hold this map, and when I >generated HTML files from the database I would resolve symbolic names into >absolute names by reading in this mapping record. >But how do we do this big time, not just me maintaining my own personal >databases and their connections to other databases? >Easy to describe how, I think; harder to implement. I would say that we >need a central registry for databases, and we need an agreed upon method >to refer to records within databases. All part of the GTP stuff we are >beginning to talk about. >Jeff worries about space and duplication on the net. I don't. And I don't >agree that in general people will be willing to point their ancestors off >to other peoples' databases, saying, in a sense, "you can pick up more of >my line over there." I'd defintely want all my own ancestors in my own >personal database, and I think most other genealogists are just as picky. >Sure, I'd stick links to other persons, but those links would mean, "go >look there and see what Joe thinks about this line, but use what's really >here in this database if you really want to know the truth." I have two comments. First I agree that I want my ancestors in my DB (except maybe Royals), but it would be nice to link the descendants of the ancestors through links. This week I learned of another distant "cousin". I don't want to copy his data, but I sure would like to put in a link to it in my DB. Since I use FTM it will take some product revision to allow that, but hopefully whatever comes from this genweb effort will be picked up by vendors. Second, a suggestion about linking. We are confusing two threads. There are two different ways to link, and either one will give the same benefit. The first is what is discussed in this thread: linking genealogy data through internal DB links. This seems to cause people trouble because of technical difficulties. Lets follow Tom's idea and instead talk about linking researchers. If I could get to all the "cousins", I could always retrieve what they knew. I prefer to link to real people, not dead people. If I linked through data, then the url would point to only one of the cousin's data, and I would lose the info of the other cousins. So how can we link researchers? One way to do it is with a cousin list which each person would keep on their own machine. You can encode the cousin codes any way you like for storage in your DB (personally I would use numbers to save space). From the code, you could link to your own cousin list. Each listed cousin would have a set of families that he researched. So if I am searching Woodson in Virginia in the 1600's, at Robert Woodson's name I would be able to link to my cousin list where I would find several people including Jerry Mower. I could then click on Jerry's's url address and reach him. So I would have a big file with each researcher that I chose to put in it and a url to their home page. I would also have on my machine my own research interests and my current home page address. What we need is a server to link the copies of these lists. There would be three operations: 1. I add to my list, or change my home page address, or make some other change to my data. Then I send my change to the server plus my addrees list for all the other people I want to link to and request an update. The server should respond with an estimate of when my update will be made. 2. I learn about a new cousin, add their homepage url to my list, and add the common family name to their entry. This may start with me finding a new cousin through a net search, such as through the RSL. 3. The server, upon getting some number of update requests, would find all the subscribers who had old urls for the people who had changed and update them. If the subscriber does not have the current family list for the updated entry, the server sends the complete entry. So the server would need to have the list of each researchers' interests. This already exists in the RSL list. The server would also have to have an inverted file listing everyone who was pointed to by someone else. This inverted file would not exist off the server, so it could be done efficiently. Each subscriber will need to pay a fee for access to this server. This will automatically maintain everbody's links on their own demand. No little applets running on your machine when you don't expect them. It does not require any direct data links like Jerry was talking about. They can be implicit by linking through the home page of the owner of the data. Comments? Martin Roberts From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 19:23:30 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA05341 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:23:29 -0800 Received: from zcias1.ziff.com (zcias1.ziff.com [140.244.1.69]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA06349; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:23:59 -0800 Received: from DN-MEDUSA by zcias1.ziff.com (PMDF V4.3-10 #6906) id <01HZTMCQL4IO00QETG@zcias1.ziff.com>; Tue, 09 Jan 1996 22:22:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from INCPRD.ICHANGE.COM by INCPRD.ICHANGE.COM (PMDF V5.0-5 #10330) id <01HZTMCGOC0Y96W75B@INCPRD.ICHANGE.COM>; Tue, 09 Jan 1996 22:22:19 +0000 (MULTINET_TIMEZONE) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 22:22:19 +0000 (MULTINET_TIMEZONE) From: david_l_evans@ichange.com (David Evans) Subject: High speed data networks, Linking genweb databases, etc. To: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU, ttw@beltway.att.com, gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Message-id: <01HZTMCGOC1096W75B@INCPRD.ICHANGE.COM> X-Envelope-to: genweb@ucsd.edu, ghoffman@UCSD.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Gary Hoffman, I haven't seen any other replies to your item "SDSCwire news flash: January 5, 1996". I have been listening in for several weeks / months, and have refrained from posting anything yet, but would like to add a comment or two for consideration. >The projects should focus on HPCC applications with high-speed >international collaboration components and will underscore the need for >more international high-bandwidth networks. Since the deadline is tomorrow, and there hasn't been any discussion, this will probably be redundant, but here goes: The opportunity is a very golden one, but I don't see the need for this type of connection for genealogy data transfer. I propose that everyone working on genweb projects reconsider the methods being used and create applications and data which conserve space as much as practical. This will enhance the speed of data transfer more than having this high speed broad band-width pipeline. The first computer that I programmed was limited to a program size of about 32k - we ran 1-5 programs simultaneously with 64k of "core". These state of the art computers in the late 60's were able to handle tasks such as the design of the C-5A Cargo plane and Poseidon Missile. Extremely complex programs were written for Commodore's computers - with very limited data storage & transfer. Granted this is history, but the first genealogy program that I used was Family Ties by Neil Wagstaff. His program was as fast (or faster) on an 8 Mhz 286 as my current windows program running on a Pentium. Hats off to Neil - his database was designed to hold up to 20,000 entries on a single 360kb floppy by pointing to information already entered (in other words, the same information was never repeated - all EVANS in my FT database were #2188). It was neat, compact, and most of all fast. TO SUMMARIZE: KEEP THE SIZE OF THE DATA TO BE TRANSFERRED MINIMIZED! To refer to a relevant example, the "e.html & evans.html" GENDEX files created by Gene Stark's GED2HTML total 50,000+ of data. - if zipped, this data is reduced to about 7kb. If the proposed "Java" version of Lifelines were able to transfer compressed files, and uncompress them, I would anticipate a significant speed increase over transferring the existing .html files. I raise the same question when I find a 200,000+ byte graphic in "GIF" format that can be adequately rendered in the same size and # of colors at about 50,000 bytes. Granted, upgrading to a 28kb modem would cut my transfer time in half, but cutting the file size would cut everyone's transfer time to 1/4 regardless of hardware. - Enough said. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- RE: Links - (Linking genweb databases) Gene Stark's program is already making the hyperlinks to other databases. What else is being considered?? Perhaps some are not aware of this? For my own part, if I were putting my GEDCOM file up on the internet, I would prefer to have it stand alone and be linked for review by something like Gene has done rather than have physical pointers to someone else's data that I can neither verify nor correct. I suspect that we will eventually have multiple occurrences of my great great grandfather, Samuel Franklin Evans, b. 4 Aug. 1804 in Jefferson Co., TN. At that point, I will go to those other databases and find the information that I have been searching for & then verify, revise and update my own files. I have clipped part of Gene Stark's "About GED2HTML" description as it contains a couple of links that you can check out if you are not aware of them already. >I have used this program to prepare my own data for presentation on the >World-Wide Web. You can view this data by starting from here. >I preprocessed my GEDCOM file to produce approximately 700 individual files, >which are linked together between themselves and to my hypertext family >history document. Birger Wathne (Birger.Wathne@vest.sdata.no) >and others have used various versions of this program in various >demonstrations of genealogy over the World-Wide Web. >Some of these demonstrations do not preprocess the data into HTML files, >but rather use LifeLines to manage the database in GEDCOM format, and >ged2html to process the output of queries for presentation over the Web. >However, at present most people are using this program as a ``black box'' >for quickly transforming their GEDCOM data into a form suitable for >presentation on the World Wide Web. >A good starting point for finding many of these databases is Tim Doyle's home page.

+ - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - - David L. Evans + + Manager, Engineering Technical Services - - General Signal Electric, Carlisle, PA + + Researching: EVANS, Crawford, Roloson, Whiting - - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + P.S. Thanks for keeping all of us listeners to these discussions up to date. TT.Wetmore - good luck on Java - let us hear if the "newness" of Java wears off or if it is as good as you thought it would be. I haven't switched to Windows95 yet - looks like Java could be the reason to switch. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 01:16:52 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA05727 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:16:52 -0800 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [198.4.7.5]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA13437 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:17:36 -0800 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA04089; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:17:35 -0500 Date: 10 Jan 96 04:16:23 EST From: Nicholas Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com> To: "(unknown)" Subject: Re Linking HTML Message-ID: <960110091622_100020.1117_EHV88-2@CompuServe.COM> Tom Wetmore wrote: >I'm uncomfortable whether the link should be to a record in a database or >to a URL. We may have to support both ideas. I think you are right - in effect the symbolic link will be to the database and the tail would be to the record - if the linked page wasn't easy to express as a tail to an URL, such as #3 or P106.htm then it would be left blank and the symbolic link alone would point to the database. If there were no symbolic link at all then the tail would be the full URL. Tom Continues >I'm also uncomfortable about having the link be to a specific record key, >e.g., > > 1 LURL wdbase I136 I understand the reservations, however my knowledge of different systems is weak. Is it common to change identifiers within a database. If it is, then we have a much larger problem and could do with developing something as a defined link for a person in a database. It should be remembered that any link should be a marriage between two databases, and requires the two researchers to work together, not as independant people, one of whom points to the other and says I fancy that. If such a marriage does take place then sharing database level information is practical. I have used a simple system of P followed by the Indicator from the INDI record in my HTML. I have a separate page per person, with surname indices and forename indices within surname. Being egocentric my page is P1.HTM. Take a look at my homepage to see what I mean. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge I had an evening of thought last night - here are my ideas: Why restrict ourselves to people. We could link to sources, towns, in line images of the person, published works, diaries ... My database covers quite alot of the UK but is based on just 28 sources, eg St Catherines House, PRO, diaries, church/parish records. Some of these sources can be pointed to by an URL. A web page may look quite good with inline images of the church with the record, or a picture of the person. This would, however, require yet another extension, that is the caption for the picture (object). We would need this anyhow - for a link to another person's records you would need to know who the other researcher is to provide the text for the link. Nicholas Oughtibridge From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 01:18:00 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA05733 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:17:59 -0800 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [198.4.7.5]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA29332 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:17:36 -0800 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA04085; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:17:35 -0500 Date: 10 Jan 96 04:16:15 EST From: Nicholas Oughtibridge <100020.1117@compuserve.com> To: GENWEB Subject: uFTi - a program to publish GEDCOM in HTML. Message-ID: <960110091614_100020.1117_EHV88-1@CompuServe.COM> Tom asked me to give a brief description of uFTi. Here it is: MS Visual Basic 3 program (ie large lots of DLL's) using the Access JET database engine. - I hope I have avoided the main problem of VB programs in that they usually look very glitzy and do nothing useful or just fall over. Reads in GEDCOM, including sources and qualities etc Currently no significant editing or reporting facilities although I think the viewing and moving around in the program is solid. Exports as a series of linked HTML pages Exports to a PSION organiser - I find this invaluable in record offices etc. Very limited printing at the moment. A few bugs if the GEDCOM file isn't what I expect - although these have proved total to the user, they are proving easy to fix (and I don't need to send out the DLL's with fixes!) Currently free, available to compuserve users in the genealogy forum (go roots). If anyone can suggest an FTP site or anywhere else I will be happy to make it available. My database is available on my homepage (around 600 entries) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/oughtibridge Please send tour comments and suggestions: 100020.1117@compuserve.com Nicholas Oughtibridge From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 02:45:04 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA07651 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 02:45:04 -0800 Received: from wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (wrcd1.urz.Uni-Wuppertal.DE [132.195.20.13]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA01825 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 02:45:45 -0800 Received: from wspo04.site.uni-wuppertal.de by wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (5.61/1.34) id AA28950; Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:45:42 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:45:42 +0100 Message-Id: <9601101045.AA28950@wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de> X-Sender: wieneke2@wrcd1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: "Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke" Subject: How to look for Surnames? Hi there GenWebbers, are there any newsgroups, that are looking for surnames, or is the only chance to find the surnames I am looking for to search in the html pages like Scott's? A. Wieneke -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke d.: BUGH-Wuppertal p.:=20 Gausstrasse 20 Corellistrasse 36 D-42119 Wuppertal D-40593 D=FCsseldorf =20 Tel. +49 - 202 - 439 - 32 22 +49 - 211 - 7 39 49 68 FAX +49 - 202 - 439 - 20 68 +49 - 211 - 7 39 49 68 e-mail: wieneke2@wrcs3.urz.uni-wuppertal.de Homepage: http://www.uni-wuppertal.de/fachbereiche/FB14/pohl/potitel.html From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 05:04:55 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07715 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:04:54 -0800 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [198.4.9.2]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA17236 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:02:31 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA06049; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:02:28 -0500 Date: 10 Jan 96 08:00:05 EST From: Mickey Lane To: "'INTERNET:GENWEB@UCSD.EDU'" Subject: RE: Linking Databases Message-ID: Jeff Murphy writes about linking the same persons in different databases. Tom Wetmore adds: >But how do we do this big time, not just me maintaining my own personal >databases and their connections to other databases? >Easy to describe how, I think; harder to implement. I would say that we >need a central registry for databases, and we need an agreed upon method >to refer to records within databases. All part of the GTP stuff we are >beginning to talk about. What Tom suggests is exactly what ROOTSBOOK does. Please see a paper on the topic written in April. It's in the GenWeb archives. Some of you may remember it as the VIII point plan. Mickey. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 05:42:51 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA07747 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:42:45 -0800 Received: from ProgCons.COM (flattop.fc.net [204.157.166.66]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA03785 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:42:21 -0800 Received: by ProgCons.COM (Smail3.1.28.1b #3) id m0ta0n0-0001CVC; Wed, 10 Jan 96 07:42 CST Message-Id: From: cmanis@ProgCons.COM (Cliff Manis) Subject: Re: How to look for Surnames? To: wieneke2@wrcs3.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:42:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU In-Reply-To: <9601101045.AA28950@wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de> from "Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke" at Jan 10, 96 11:45:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1064 Readers: The NEW GenSearch page is allowing a FREE search for any surname using the GenServ database of names. Visit, my GenServ homepage for information or the URL below. It has a GenSearch program to allow one-search of the large GenServ database at NO COST. It will only allow "one" search per email address. The GenSearch page and free search will be available during 1996. See URL below of try this URL: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/gssearch.htm Cliff Manis Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke wrote: >are there any newsgroups, that are looking for surnames, or is the only >chance to find the surnames I am looking for to search in the html pages >like Scott's? > >A. Wieneke -- Cliff Manis cmanis@progcons.com Seoul, Korea GenServ "Genealogical Server" a service for making GEDCOM data available. For GenServ DOCS, just send a message to: genserv-doc@progcons.com Over 2,200,000 names now in GEDCOM data on this system Visit the GenServ Homepage URL: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/ - From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 06:36:02 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA07792 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 06:36:01 -0800 Received: from Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.11.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA18557 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 06:37:09 -0800 Received: by Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/260, SunOS 4.0) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS/mizar id AA16838; Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:37:06 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:37:06 +0100 From: Anders Andersson Message-Id: <9601101437.AA16838@Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, wieneke2@wrcs3.urz.uni-wuppertal.de Subject: Re: How to look for Surnames? A. Wieneke writes: >are there any newsgroups, that are looking for surnames, or is the only >chance to find the surnames I am looking for to search in the html pages >like Scott's? Since newsgroups (and mailing lists) are more geared towards arbitrary and general discussions, they may be less convenient for queries about specific surnames (I think few people would read them if that's all they were about), but you could try soc.roots for one thing. However, I think you should first check out the Roots Surname List of some 72,000 surnames, provided by the RAND Genealogy Club at . -- Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden Phone: +46 18 183170 EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 08:16:35 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA07885 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:16:34 -0800 Received: from hawaii.et.byu.edu (hawaii.et.byu.edu [128.187.133.11]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA21086 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:18:36 -0800 Received: by hawaii.et.byu.edu; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:17:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <199601101617.JAA07062@hawaii.et.byu.edu> Subject: Interlinking Genelaogy Databases To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:17:06 -0700 (MST) From: rex@surfutah.com (Rex Myer) Reply-to: "rex@surfutah.com (Rex Myer)X-Mailer":rex@surfutah.com.X-Mailer:ELM[version.2.4.PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been following this thread on URL interlinking of genaalogy databases on the Web. Some have suggested the introduction of new TAGS for record fields. I would suggest before jumping to the new TAGS ideas that you (general) take a good look at the latest GEDCOM specification which is not a draft and spells out clearly the TAGS definitions, and it further defines a versatility for inclusion of different types TAGS. The latest specification version is 5.5 and was released (at least the copy I have) Jan 2, 1996. You might be able to figure out a way to fit the server name of the URL into the REPOsitoy record and the specific CGI/filename identifier into the SOURce record (I don't have an example in mind because I don't have the spec. in front of me). BTW, inline images and captions are already a part of the specification. This is meant as food for thought in the indicated discussion. Cheers, Rex PS The V5.5 spec is found at genealogy.org ftp server. And it is NOT a draft. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rex Myer Consultant rex@surfutah.com http://www.surfutah.com From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 09:23:06 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07964 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:23:05 -0800 Received: from gilbert.ucc.hull.ac.uk (gilbert.ucc.hull.ac.uk [150.237.128.199]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA09165 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:21:23 -0800 Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk by gilbert.ucc.hull.ac.uk with SMTP local (PP); Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:20:49 +0000 Received: from mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk (actually host bertie.dcs.hull.ac.uk) by chopin with SMTP local (PP); Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:20:35 +0000 Received: from olympus.dcs.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0ta4NZ-0003rWC; Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:32 GMT From: Brian Tompsett Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:19:00 GMT Message-Id: <24228.9601101719@olympus.dcs.hull.ac.uk> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Interlinking Genelaogy Databases May I remind newer readers that some time ago we also debated the use of the DNS system to provide an abstraction system for database names. In this way the (for example) smith data could be accessed from the host db.smith.genweb.org. As a result of this discussion the genweb.org domain was registered. If we agreed a method if accessing a record from any given database we have gone a long way to solving the problem. If I remember we were at this point 12 months ago! So, to recap, if we have a link to a record referenced as id xxxxx in database smith we can access it by refering to url http://db.smith.genweb.org/cgi-bin/access?xxxxx or somesuch. This, of course, does not preclude using the Source field and other gedcom entities to store such information as already described. I refer back to the past because these conversations have a feeling of deja-vu abou them. Brian From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 09:33:50 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07993 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:33:49 -0800 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [198.4.9.2]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24159 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:36:18 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA00946; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:36:17 -0500 Date: 10 Jan 96 12:30:42 EST From: Mickey Lane To: "'INTERNET:GENWEB@UCSD.EDU'" Subject: RE: Linking HTML Message-ID: Earlier, I said: >What Tom suggests is exactly what ROOTSBOOK does. Please see a >paper on the topic written in April. It's in the GenWeb archives. >Some of you may remember it as the VIII point plan. I re-read the note and came to the conclusion that it needs to be updated. So, with respect to linking between databases... In order of priority, most important first: * Objective * Abstraction * Namespace * Entry identification * Update rules * Storage locations * Link mechanism * Database representation In past incarnations of this topic, various people have had various pictures of what linking actually is. While none of the views were wrong, it was quite confusing to follow the conversation when the participants were speaking different languages. This view of the subject is from the linked database standpoint and has nothing specifically to do with the web, browsers or indexes of such. Although I'll phrase things in terms of the Internet, there's not even a requirement to use that. Prior to doing anything, we should all agree that whatever we do today will not last very long. The web is the hottest thing going now but in 5 years, it will be replaced by something else. I don't know what the something else is but I'm fairly sure it will show up. We must recognize that people come and people go, machines that are important now may not exist next year and that the rate of change in electronic genealogy is accelerating. With this in mind, it is very important that whatever we do, we do it knowing that it's going to change and that every level of abstraction we can apply now will facilitate those changes later. In short, quit talking about database records. That comes last. The single most important thing to accomplish is the establishment of a database namespace. You can't have two databases named "Smith" and expect everyone to know which one is which. (Obviously, I'm speaking of things in the global arena. Private things can be named whatever people want them to be.) The ROOTSBOOK server does this by assigning the most logical name to the database followed by a two- digit serial: SMITH02 or JONES05. It has some 1,400 databases like this. Once the names of the databases have been established, a means of identifying which entry in the database is needed. Three methods come to mind, each with different properties: * Bob Jones, born 16 JAN 1833 in New York City * Entry 100 * @I1243@ The first is the best in terms of resistance to change and system independence. The drawbacks are that some kind of search needs to be done every time a connection is made and that suitable information may not always exist. The second only works if the entry numbers never change. The third is a poor choice because the @i...@ numbers are machine generated, very subject to change and refer only to GEDCOM representations. The best choice of the three is based on the next topic so I'll have to return to it in a moment. Since we're trying to define a public database, there are - there MUST be - some basic rules of participation if you want more than token interest. There's a lot of room for discussion about what and how many rules but I think a basic list should include: * Once released as public, file remains public forever. * No copyright restrictions (or the same for all files). * No uncontrolled changes to public databases. * Certain aspects of the file must meet some set of standards. (identification, record length, character set, links, etc.) The number and type of changes allowed on a public database will have a significant impact on the type of entry identification mentioned above. If the rule states that *no* changes of any kind were permitted to a public file, you could use any link mechanism you pleased (including character offset!) since your target is fixed. If you permit changing details of an entry but not it's name or number, you can use the entry number as the entry identification (this is how ROOTSBOOK works). And last, if the public databases are allowed to be works-in-progress, as most of our personal databases are, you should restrict links to the name/dob/pob type thing mentioned above. In all but the first instance, you must implement some sort of version control. Once you have established _what_ you are linking to (database name, entry within), you can work on where. Obviously, it needs to be somewhere where you can always get to it. Some choices: * The Internet via web/ftp/DCE * A dial-in site (BBS, etc.) * Published CDs containing hundreds of public files * Files copied to floppies/etc. The list seems to run naturally from expensive to cheap, user friendly to inconvenient and least reliable to most reliable. I suggest we attempt to adopt a solution that permits all these choices. This decision is also impacted by the rules defining updates, versions and so on. Since we're all communicating via the Internet, that medium is naturally what everyone assumes will be the basis for this whole project. I hope we're smart enough to see the entire forest as well as this one giant tree. Even so, we'll have problems to deal with: * Network communications are intermittent * Sites go away * People change jobs, etc. and loose access (or the ability to serve stuff as is the case w/ROOTSBOOK.) * Machines are upgraded and OS versions change. * People work independantly and their actions, either through ignorance or malice, can corrupt the whole The obvious solution is to have multiple sites containing identical "whats" with multiple lookup tools to deal with multiple "wheres." OK, so we've got the what and the where sorted out; it's time to deal with the how. The simplest link is one between two ancestor trees where a person in one marries a person in another. As has been pointed out, no one is likely to rely on some other place or thing to hold part of their personal ancestry so they would wind up copying all of the referenced data (or some large part) to their own database and then, maybe, linking the two databases. Each time this occurs, you have another instance of the same person in the ever expanding sea of electronic genealogies. The only practical way to deal with this is to allow both multiple links and indirect or learned links. F'instance: Database A has an entry and a link to the same person in both E and G databases. The G entry has a link to the same person in B and C. A therefore links to B, C, E and G. Another dimension of the link mechanism is the perceived accuracy of the link. In ROOTSBOOK, links can be for bit-by-bit identical entries where there's absolutely no question that the people are the same and one entry contains exactly the same info as another all the way to links between people who might be the same. There may even be a case for links to people who are definitely _not_ the same. ROOTSBOOK also implements the indirection concept for identical links whereby one example in a set of many identical entries is the keeper and the others copies. Attempts to access a copy actually results in accessing the keeper. As has been pointed out but perhaps not hammered home is the fact that no concept of "where" should _ever_ be stored in a database. Links should only be made using the publicly accepted name of the database (SMITH02) and whatever entry identification mechanism is decided on. Some other agent should associate the where with the what and we don't really care what that agent is because we know it's going to change frequently, perhaps daily. Once all of the above has been sorted out, the implementation of the links become obvious and trivial. In ROOTSBOOK, X:n:entry where n defines the accuracy, book the registered database name and entry the number of the person therein. In GEDCOM, maybe 0 @I1@ INDI 1 NAME Tom /Jones/ 1 LINK // establish that a link exists 2 NAME SMITH02 // name the database to link to 3 ENTR 23 // identify the database entry 4 QUAL IDENTICAL // describe the link 3 ENTR 34 // identify another entry in same database 4 QUAL DIFFERENT // describe 2 NAME JONES33 // name another database 3 ENTR 1045 // etc. 4 QUAL PROBABLE I'm not a GEDCOM expert so I'll leave that to those who are. Mickey. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 09:42:49 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA08006 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:42:49 -0800 Received: from belize.ucs.indiana.edu (belize.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.10.64]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10016 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:43:24 -0800 Received: from falstaff.ucs.indiana.edu (roburkha@falstaff.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.10.42]) by belize.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.3/8.7/1.10IUPO) with ESMTP id MAA20262 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:41:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from roburkha@localhost) by falstaff.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7/8.7/regexp($Revision: 1.3 $) id MAA03050; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:43:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:43:22 -0500 (EST) From: ronald ernest burkhart X-Sender: roburkha@falstaff.ucs.indiana.edu To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII UNSUB GENWEB From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 11:54:46 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA08266 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:54:40 -0800 Received: from Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.11.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA15201 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:52:06 -0800 Received: by Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/260, SunOS 4.0) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS/mizar id AA20893; Wed, 10 Jan 96 20:52:03 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 20:52:03 +0100 From: Anders Andersson Message-Id: <9601101952.AA20893@Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: How to look for Surnames? Cc: wieneke2@wrcs3.urz.uni-wuppertal.de In a previous message, I wrote: >Since newsgroups (and mailing lists) are more geared towards >arbitrary and general discussions, they may be less convenient >for queries about specific surnames (I think few people would >read them if that's all they were about), but you could try >soc.roots for one thing. It's been years since I last had a look at soc.roots, and a couple of people have informed me that a newsgroup by that name no longer exists (I'm feeling old ;-)... Instead, there is a whole new hierarchy of newsgroups called soc.genealogy.computing soc.genealogy.french soc.genealogy.german soc.genealogy.jewish soc.genealogy.methods soc.genealogy.misc soc.genealogy.surnames (There may be others which somehow haven't been detected by my server.) That last one above appears to be appropriate for surname issues. In any case, my primary suggestion is still valid: >However, I think you should first check out the Roots Surname >List of some 72,000 surnames, provided by the RAND Genealogy >Club at . The people at RAND also provide the Roots Location List, which is more useful for research in countries like Sweden, where common people have changed "surnames" (read: patronymics) more often than they have moved to the next parish. -- Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden Phone: +46 18 183170 EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 17:05:14 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08743 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:05:13 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA15830 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:05:19 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA20244; Wed, 10 Jan 96 20:03:23 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA13225; Wed, 10 Jan 96 20:05:20 EST Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 20:05:20 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601110105.AA13225@beltway> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Interlinking Genealogy Databases Brian (>): >...some time ago we also debated the use of the DNS system to provide an >abstraction system for database names...As a result of this discussion the >genweb.org domain was registered. I apologize a little for bumbling onto a thread that was discussed a while back. However, these topics do have to go around and around a few times before they reach critical mass in enough persons' minds that something significant gets done. >If we [agree on a method of accessing records] from any given database we >have gone a long way to solving the problem. Define "we;" I'm putting my money on GENTECH these days. Without a driving force these ideas will remain ideas. >If I remember we were at this point 12 months ago! You and a few others maybe. I and new folk weren't. And if we were at that point a year ago we don't seem to have made much progress. I agree that the DNS approach may be an excellent approach to cataloging databases. But I don't know enough to even evaluate that idea; do we have such experts? And even if we make this decision, there are many followup decisions, all of which I have been lumping under the term "GTP." The DNS approach solves the "finding" problem; we still have to work the "linking" problem. Tom Wetmore From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 17:39:49 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08791 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:39:48 -0800 Received: from smtp.surfutah.com (salmon.iserver.com [204.212.248.12]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA17196 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:42:00 -0800 Received: from myer.byu.edu by smtp.surfutah.com; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:39:55 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:39:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199601110139.SAA01607@smtp.surfutah.com> X-Sender: rex@pop.surfutah.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brian Tompsett From: Rex Myer Subject: Re: Interlinking Genealogy Databases Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU At 05:19 PM 1/10/96 GMT, you wrote: > May I remind newer readers that some time ago we also debated the use of the >DNS system to provide an abstraction system for database names. In this way >the (for example) smith data could be accessed from the host db.smith.genweb.org. >As a result of this discussion the genweb.org domain was registered. Thanks for the info (I guess I am a new reader). I am not sure how that would work on the internals, but I do have an idea (which may be moot) of another way to make it work with a CGI script and a central Web server for getting locations of databases (Described below). If my idea is moot, how does one make use of the registration of databases on the genweb.org server. I have not seen anything but the gendex (or genindex) which is an external list of genweb databases from what I understand (not a central lookup table). >If we agreed a method if accessing a record from any given database we have >gone a long way to solving the problem. > If I remember we were at this point 12 months ago! > So, to recap, if we have a link to a record referenced as id xxxxx >in database smith we can access it by refering to url > http://db.smith.genweb.org/cgi-bin/access?xxxxx or somesuch. > This, of course, does not preclude using the Source field and other gedcom >entities to store such information as already described. > I refer back to the past because these conversations have a feeling of >deja-vu abou them. My Idea (sparked by the suggestions on the thread): 1) Have a central registration (much like internic for domain names) server. (Not new) 2) For every instance of a database in the Net have a unique name registered with the database location server. (Not new) 3) Set the database location server so that it has a CGI script which based on the parameters passed to it will use the location: {URL} Web server directive to redirect the call to the indicated database on the server which hosts the database (presumably elsewhere). So that all references to a genealogical record (not limiting this to individual records) which are in another database across the Web will call the same URL to go to that record. ( For instance (I won't propose any GEDCOM tags here) a GEDCOM tag would indicate that the record to be sought is in database SMITH32 (I would hope the central naming server could be more imaginative than this in the names) and it is found by the REFN tag with the value of G456. This would appear as (if Genweb were the serfer of course): http://www.geweb.org/cgi-bin/lookup?database=SMITH32&tagname=REFN&value=G456 Further, say for that SMITH32 was located on the server www.myfavserver.org and could be accessed with the CGI script genealogyaccess. Also say that the actual database name for SMITH32 on myfavserver was 'harper', the following would be the output of the CGI script on the database location server: location: http://www.myfavserver.org/cgi-bin/ {broken here for conveneince} genealogyaccess?dbase=harper&tagname=REFN&tagval=G456 Basically, the location server would keep a few key parts for information to apply to the database relocation: 1) Web database name {SMITH32} 2) Actual database name {harper} 3) Location of hosting server {www.myfavserver.org} 4) CGI scriptname for resolving the record reference in the hosting database {genealogyaccess} 5) Format for the output { dbase={database_name}&tagname={tag_name}&tagval={tag_value} } Make sure not to limit the ability to reference across the web by REFN or RFN or INDI or AFN etc. by forcing all databses to use certain key tags for indexing. One major benefit to this is that someone could register their database as SMITH32 and have a database 'harper' be the name on a server. After a while (they opt to have their database hosted on a different server) they can transfer their database over to a new server which may have to have it be called 'addair' rather than 'harper'. All the database owner has to do is request for a modification of the entry in the location service. Another benefit to this method in particular is that you don't have to have an entry for each record to be linked across the Net. You only need to have an entry for each database. A drawback to this method is that servers which host these databases need to have a CGI script to resolve the link coming into their database. A second drawback is that you need to get a company or an organization to sponsor this effort (it does cost money). This may be difficult to get since (to my understanding) whenever a company attempts to start something on the Net as a service to the genealogical community they get undersold by hobbiests who do it for free. So we need to determine how serious we are about this before getting into it. What I am basically saying is that it won't get off the ground very fast with a bunch of hobbiests establishing standards and protocols. Look at Brian's comment above: "We were at this point 12 months ago". (I guess this drawback is an observation too). I realize this may be unclear un some spots. I am thinking faster that I am writing, but I think that this would work. Any thiughts? Rex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rex Myer Owner, WebGen rex@surfutah.com http://www.surfutah.com/web/webgen/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 18:17:05 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA08860 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:17:05 -0800 Received: from BART.BBN.COM (BART.BBN.COM [128.89.1.226]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA18354 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:18:55 -0800 Received: from GAAK.BBN.COM by BART.BBN.COM id aa03906; 10 Jan 96 21:17 EST Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:15:57 EST Message-ID: To: ttw@beltway.att.com CC: genweb@UCSD.EDU In-reply-to: <9601100110.AA15029@beltway> (ttw@beltway.att.com) Subject: Re: Linking HTML From: "Michael A. Patton" Reply-To: "Michael A. Patton, GenWeb mail" We've discussed this linking question several times on the list, I recommend consulting the archives. As I recall, the GEDCOM spec had an allowance for references to other databases, I don't have the time for specific references right now (need to go out and shovel the snow AGAIN :-), but the outline as I remember it was that any place you could reference to a record elsewhere in your database (as say @I123@) you could use a form with two parts separated by a colon (":") where the first part specified the DB and the second was a reference in that DB. The GEDCOM spec never said how the DB part was resolved, but I like the idea of a "header" record in the local DB (in particular this means we don't need a global registry for these). I agree that we should think about avoiding the problem of specific record numbers that might change, but for now with the size of the expiriment small enough, it seems sufficient to use this and just have a little more cooperation between DB publishers (i.e. if you tell me you have a reference to my record @F3456@, then I can let you know any time it might change. With the current size, I can see needing to notify at most 3 or 4 people... Using one of the web page watchers (like netminder's) would also be a help. Anyway, let me try and construct an example (where you might reference my @F3456@, calling my DB "MAP"). I'm doing this from memory and it's been too long since I read the GEDCOM spec, so take this with a large grain of salt. I think all it takes is adding a record (I'll call it DBDEF), with some new fields of it's own, in your header, which might say: 0 @MAP:@ DBDEF 1 OWNER 2 NAME Mike Patton 2 EMAIL MAP@MAP.Cambridge.MA.US 1 BASE http://WWW.MAP.Cambridge.MA.US/genealogy/record= and then somewhere in your database you have a record that you believe belongs to my family record and you put @MAP:F3456@ for the reference and when generating HTML, rather than an internal link to your DB, it links to which is a record in my DB. I think this general plan is about right, and I think it would be useful to pursue some experiments and outlining the GEDCOM rep. One thing I think we SHOULDN'T do is try and get it right on the first try. That seems to be what derailed this the first couple of times... -MAP From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 10 19:19:21 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA08987 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:19:20 -0800 Received: from mtvernon1.accessus.net (mtvernon1.accessus.net [204.248.93.5]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19751 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:20:39 -0800 Received: from [205.242.18.142] (stlouis-pm2-1/142.accessus.net [205.242.18.142]) by mtvernon1.accessus.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id VAA05078 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:14:12 -0600 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:23:49 -0600 To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: nnevels@accessus.net (Nevels N. Nevels) unsub genweb Poeple make the world go 'round!! ----Nevels, the last Prophet. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 11 00:08:26 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA09316 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 00:08:26 -0800 Received: from arachnet.algroup.co.uk (arachnet.algroup.co.uk [194.128.162.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA25943 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 00:10:43 -0800 Received: from heap.ben.algroup.co.uk by arachnet.algroup.co.uk id aa29085; 11 Jan 96 8:10 GMT Received: from gonzo.ben.algroup.co.uk by heap.ben.algroup.co.uk id aa23169; 11 Jan 96 7:49 GMT Subject: Re: Linking HTML To: Mickey Lane Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:50:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Ben Laurie Cc: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU In-Reply-To: from "Mickey Lane" at Jan 10, 96 12:30:42 pm Reply-To: ben@algroup.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 993 Message-ID: <9601110750.aa24262@gonzo.ben.algroup.co.uk> > * Once released as public, file remains public forever. > * No copyright restrictions (or the same for all files). A small (but important) point about copyright - if there are no copyright restrictions, then anyone can pick up the data and copyright it. You need copyright to protect free access (strange, but true). The usual thing is to have a notice which states the copyright holder and gives the right to copy the data so long as the copyright notice is intact. I can post the text of such a thing if anyone is interested. Cheers, Ben. > * No uncontrolled changes to public databases. > * Certain aspects of the file must meet some set of standards. > (identification, record length, character set, links, etc.) -- Ben Laurie Phone: +44 (181) 994 6435 Freelance Consultant Fax: +44 (181) 994 6472 and Technical Director Email: ben@algroup.co.uk A.L. Digital Ltd, URL: http://www.algroup.co.uk London, England. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 11 04:19:02 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA11369 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:19:00 -0800 Received: from Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.11.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA10396 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:19:08 -0800 Received: by Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/260, SunOS 4.0) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS/mizar id AA02515; Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:19:03 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:19:03 +0100 From: Anders Andersson Message-Id: <9601111219.AA02515@Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE> To: MLANE@csi.compuserve.com, ben@algroup.co.uk Subject: Re: Linking HTML Cc: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU Ben laurie writes (in response to Mickey Lane, I believe): >> * Once released as public, file remains public forever. >> * No copyright restrictions (or the same for all files). > >A small (but important) point about copyright - if there are no copyright >restrictions, then anyone can pick up the data and copyright it. You need >copyright to protect free access (strange, but true). The usual thing is to >have a notice which states the copyright holder and gives the right to copy >the data so long as the copyright notice is intact. I can post the text of >such a thing if anyone is interested. Another point is that rules and practices may vary between jurisdictions. It's not necessarily true that "anyone can pick up the data and copyright it" if the original lacks a copyright notice. Even when the author has explicitely waived his copyright, the act of copying a "free" document and simply pasting your own copyright statement onto it probably won't entitle you to any rights in Sweden at least; it may even be considered a violation of the author's moral rights, which can't be unconditionally waived. However, putting a copyright notice on a document for the purpose of allowing unlimited copying is nevertheless a good idea. Thanks to international copyright conventions, such a notice helps a great deal in having the same rules apply for the document in most countries of the world. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, not even related to one, just a legal amateur at large. :-) -- Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden Phone: +46 18 183170 EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 11 04:52:05 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA11385 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:52:05 -0800 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA02063 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:49:02 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id HAA19006 for genweb@ucsd.edu; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:48:38 -0500 Received: (from gene@localhost) by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA12070; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:48:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:48:40 -0500 From: Gene Stark Message-Id: <199601111248.HAA12070@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Interlinking Genelaogy Databases Brian Tompsett writes: > May I remind newer readers that some time ago we also debated the use of the >DNS system to provide an abstraction system for database names. In this way >the (for example) smith data could be accessed from the host db.smith.genweb.org. >As a result of this discussion the genweb.org domain was registered. Yes, but nothing has been done with it. As a matter of fact, I can't even get an address for the primary nameserver at the moment. I haven't seen anything from the person who registered the domain and set up the nameserver for quite a long time. I have suggested this here before, but I think we should implement the proposal that was discussed here before, and get names in genweb.org assigned to the various databases that are currently online. Maybe this isn't the ultimate solution, but it will allow us to proceed. I can run a secondary for this domain, if necessary, but I can't do anything by myself because we of course need the cooperation of the administrator of the primary server. - Gene Stark From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 11 06:25:43 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA11447 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 06:25:42 -0800 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA12437 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 06:27:10 -0800 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA00454; Thu, 11 Jan 96 08:31:52 CST Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma000449; Thu, 11 Jan 96 08:31:46 -0600 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA29807 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:26:13 -0600 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Thu, 11 Jan 96 08:26:11 CST Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 08:26:11 CST Message-Id: <9601111426.AA07339@wales> To: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Linking HTML Ben Laurie writes: > > >> * Once released as public, file remains public forever. >> * No copyright restrictions (or the same for all files). > >A small (but important) point about copyright - if there are no copyright >restrictions, then anyone can pick up the data and copyright it. You need >copyright to protect free access (strange, but true). The usual thing is to >have a notice which states the copyright holder and gives the right to copy >the data so long as the copyright notice is intact. I can post the text of >such a thing if anyone is interested. Ben, I am not sure about England, but in the US, this is NOT true. According to the US's signing of international copyright conventions (is it Bern?) any work is _BY DEFAULT_ copyrighted unless specifically relased to the public domain. Let me also add that if a work were to contain no copyright message, and someone included it in another work which stated that unless otherwise stated, all material was copyrighted by them, it _would NOT_ give them copyright to the included work. Only the author can claim that. They would only have a copyright to the creative elements of the compilation, not the compiled texts themselves. Scott GENEALOGY | Do you know who your ancestors are? | Scott McGee -----------+---------------------------------------+--------------------- email: smcgee@microware.com | What? Me speak for web: http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/homepage.html | someone else? Nah! ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------- See my genealogy page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee and my GenWeb page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/genweb From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 11 09:35:57 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11663 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:35:47 -0800 Received: from Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.11.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA19667 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:33:15 -0800 Received: by Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/260, SunOS 4.0) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS/mizar id AA06813; Thu, 11 Jan 96 18:33:08 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 18:33:08 +0100 From: Anders Andersson Message-Id: <9601111733.AA06813@Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE> To: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU, smcgee@microware.com Subject: Copyright (was: Linking HTML) [GenWeb project group: Legal and Ethical Issues] Ben Laurie wrote: >A small (but important) point about copyright - if there are no copyright >restrictions, then anyone can pick up the data and copyright it. You need Scott McGee wrote: >I am not sure about England, but in the US, this is NOT true. According to >the US's signing of international copyright conventions (is it Bern?) any >work is _BY DEFAULT_ copyrighted unless specifically relased to the public >domain. Scott, I think you are misreading Ben's statement. He's talking about copyright *restrictions*, not copyright messages. Just as you say, a restriction may exist even if there is no notice about it. I believe the issue was what might happen if researchers were to waive their copyright to distributed material, whether or not this waiving were to be expressed in the documents themselves. However, we do agree that merely slapping a copyright statement onto a work taken verbatim from the public domain doesn't entitle anyone to any rights to that work. Taking Shakespeare's _Hamlet_ and adding the text "Copyright (c) 1996 Acme, Inc." with no other change is at best a piece of blatant misinformation. And yes, it's the Berne convention which grants copyright to any creative work regardless of copyright notices. This convention was established already 100 years ago, but the USA didn't sign it until around 1980 (instead, the USA signed the younger Universal Copyright Convention in the 1950's, I think). -- Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden Phone: +46 18 183170 EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 11 11:51:12 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA11887 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:51:11 -0800 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25112 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:46:41 -0800 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA06242; Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:51:24 CST Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma006236; Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:51:18 -0600 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA09003 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:45:43 -0600 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:45:42 CST Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 13:45:42 CST Message-Id: <9601111945.AA07711@wales> To: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU, andersa@mizar.docs.uu.se, smcgee@microware.com Subject: Re: Copyright (was: Linking HTML) Anders Andersson writes: > >[GenWeb project group: Legal and Ethical Issues] > >Ben Laurie wrote: >>A small (but important) point about copyright - if there are no copyright >>restrictions, then anyone can pick up the data and copyright it. You need > >Scott McGee wrote: >>I am not sure about England, but in the US, this is NOT true. According to >>the US's signing of international copyright conventions (is it Bern?) any >>work is _BY DEFAULT_ copyrighted unless specifically relased to the public >>domain. > >Scott, >I think you are misreading Ben's statement. He's talking about >copyright *restrictions*, not copyright messages. Just as you >say, a restriction may exist even if there is no notice about it. >I believe the issue was what might happen if researchers were to >waive their copyright to distributed material, whether or not >this waiving were to be expressed in the documents themselves. Right, I see what you mean, but much of what I said is still valid. For instance, if I write some text, and specifically place it in the public domain, you may freely copy it all you want. You can CLAIM a copyright on it if you want, but all I have to do is demonstate that I produced the work and placed it in the public domain and your claim to a copyright is void. Therefore, while a blanket copyright statement such as "Unless otherwise indicated, all material in this are copyright Foo Bar Inc., 1996", would seem to claim a copyright on works included in it (wether copyrighted or public domain, as long as no copyright notice is included) this claim is actually void. All that Foo Bar Inc. can actually copyright is their own original work (which may include the order or format of included files, but not thier contents if produced by others). Thus, if someone puts together a CD with archives of this group, they can claim all the copyrights they want, but I still hold a copyright on all messages I author, unless I place them in the public domain. If I do so, _NOBODY_ has a copyright on it, regardless of any claim to the contrary. Scott GENEALOGY | Do you know who your ancestors are? | Scott McGee -----------+---------------------------------------+--------------------- email: smcgee@microware.com | What? Me speak for web: http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/homepage.html | someone else? Nah! ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------- See my genealogy page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee and my GenWeb page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/genweb From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 12 04:29:49 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA15147 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:29:49 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA00111 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:31:35 -0800 Received: from ip-bend1-14.teleport.com (ip-bend1-16.teleport.com [206.163.116.48]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03919 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:31:33 -0800 Received: by ip-bend1-14.teleport.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE0A4.3058E320@ip-bend1-14.teleport.com>; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 04:12:29 -0800 Message-ID: <01BAE0A4.3058E320@ip-bend1-14.teleport.com> From: Jeff Murphy To: "'GenWeb mailing list'" Subject: How to unsubscribe Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 03:51:36 -0800 Encoding: 16 TEXT It saddens me to see so many having difficulty getting out of GENWEB. From the original message: To unsubscribe from this list, address a message to "listserv@ucsd.edu" and put in the body of the message "unsub genweb". If this does not result in your being removed from the list, you may inquire of postmaster@ucsd.edu the reason your unsub command does not work. The frequent reason is that you are subscribed under a different name than your mail gives as your return address. Hope that helps. Jeff Murphy Redmond, Oregon jmurphy@teleport.com see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 12 05:30:05 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA15184 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 05:30:05 -0800 Received: from ProgCons.COM (flattop.fc.net [204.157.166.66]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA21579 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 05:28:37 -0800 Received: by ProgCons.COM (Smail3.1.28.1b #3) id m0tajWu-0001CWC; Fri, 12 Jan 96 07:28 CST Message-Id: From: cmanis@ProgCons.COM (Cliff Manis) Subject: Internet 1996 World Exposition - Genealogy To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 07:28:28 -0600 (CST) Cc: cmanis@ProgCons.COM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2342 Readers: Read below about the Internet 1996 World Exposition and how Genealogy will be a part of it. >>Cliff Manis said: >>and make the GenSearch "one-time' surname search available on the >>Internet 1996 World Exposition, and NOW they are going to make a >>Genealogy Grass ROOTS area. > >Brian Randell said: >That sounds very good - but what is the Internet 1996 World Expo? >(I've not come across the name before). The Internet 1996 World Exposition is like any other World's Fair. It is THE BIG DEAL for Internet in 1996. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ You need to check it at URL: http://park.org They have spent 1000's of hours and $$ to make this thing happen. They have about 20 different pages and lots of graphics, describing what this Exposition is all about and how one company or person may be a part of it. It is truely a Worldwide effort. I found out about it in Korea while discussing family history with a Korean friend. , and started working at the time to get a special page (Pavilion) on the EXPO for Genealogy. As you see in my email letter _now_ the people around the world will have a special pavilion for Genealogy. This is great and will help the world-wide effort to family history. I guess there are many of the people around the world who have not heard of it as yet. The best place to learn more is at the URL listed above. Much effort has been put into it by The Internet 1996 World Expo workers. They have some beautiful pages. The GenSearch one-time surname search has already been used by more than 1000 different Internet addresses in just 5 days. I will keep GenSearch active all the time in 1996. We welcome a surname search by anyone wishing to use this FREE search service to the try it. Information is available from this URL, and please read what it says: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/gssearch.htm Good luck to all, Cliff -- Cliff Manis cmanis@progcons.com Seoul, Korea GenServ "Genealogical Server" a service for making GEDCOM data available. For GenServ DOCS, just send a message to: genserv-doc@progcons.com Over 2,200,000 names now in GEDCOM data on this system Visit the GenServ Homepage URL: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/ Check the GenSearch page: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/gssearch.htm - - From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 12 05:34:45 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA15192 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 05:34:45 -0800 Received: from pimaia2w.prodigy.com (pimaia2w.prodigy.com [192.207.105.46]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA21722 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 05:37:36 -0800 Received: from mailinb1.prodigy.com (tinahost [199.4.137.91]) by pimaia2w.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA27530 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:37:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:36:46 EST From: QRHV83A@prodigy.com ( J E STALEY) X-Mailer: PRODIGY Services Company Internet mailer [PIM 3.2-334.50] Message-Id: <091.08495922.QRHV83A@prodigy.com> To: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU -- [ From: Pam Staley * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- UNSUB GENWEB From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jan 13 04:26:20 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA18965 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 04:26:19 -0800 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA08031 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 04:25:54 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA17177; Sat, 13 Jan 96 07:24:00 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA13995; Sat, 13 Jan 96 07:25:59 EST Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 07:25:59 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601131225.AA13995@beltway> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Linking HTML Nicholas Oughtibridge (>): >Why restrict ourselves to people. We could link to sources, towns, in line >images of the person, published works, diaries. I agree with you here. My software allows you to define records for any kind of entity, and allows any kind of entity to link to any other kind. I think most of us expect this eventually, it's just that we always use persons when describing examples. Tom Wetmore From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 15 22:00:02 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA27244 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:59:47 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA15231 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:00:03 -0800 Received: from ip-bend1-01.teleport.com (ip-bend1-01.teleport.com [206.163.116.33]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA21453; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:58:31 -0800 Received: by ip-bend1-01.teleport.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE394.BCC80500@ip-bend1-01.teleport.com>; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:59:26 -0800 Message-ID: <01BAE394.BCC80500@ip-bend1-01.teleport.com> From: Jeff Murphy To: "'Bill Couch'" , "'Connie Anderson'" , "'Farrell Stewart'" , "'David Edwards'" , "'Elijah-L mailing list'" , "'Carmen Finley'" To: "'Gene Stark'" , "'GenWeb mailing list'" , "'Louise Godwin'" , "'Jean Smallwood'" , "'Jo Ann Bayless'" , "'JOSEPH mailing list'" To: "'John Schnake'" , "'Kep Kennedy'" , "'KYROOTS mailing list'" , "'Joel Murphy'" , "'ROOTS-L Mailing List'" , "'Scott McGee'" To: "'Mike St. Clair'" Subject: Asher Powell MURPHY, b. 15 Jan 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:53:49 -0800 Encoding: 14 TEXT My wife and I are pleased to announce to all our friends the birth of our son Asher Powell Murphy. Asher was born tonight at 6:30 pm through a Cesaerian section, weighing 6 lbs 4 oz. Big head. Exhausting labor. Mother and son are doing well, and will be home in a few days. I am thrilled. If you find yourself uninterested, or unable to share our joy, we apologize. Jeff Murphy Redmond, Oregon jmurphy@teleport.com see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 15 23:08:30 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA27293 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:06:56 -0800 Received: from iMach.com (IMgate.iMach.com [199.242.242.129]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA12096 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:09:10 -0800 Received: (from loraleec@localhost) by iMach.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id AAA16212; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 00:06:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 00:06:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Loralee H. Christian" To: Joseph@bolis.sf-bay.org cc: "'Bill Couch'" , "'Connie Anderson'" , "'Farrell Stewart'" , "'David Edwards'" , "'Elijah-L mailing list'" , "'Carmen Finley'" , "'Gene Stark'" , "'GenWeb mailing list'" , "'Louise Godwin'" , "'Jean Smallwood'" , "'Jo Ann Bayless'" , "'JOSEPH mailing list'" , "'John Schnake'" , "'Kep Kennedy'" , "'KYROOTS mailing list'" , "'Joel Murphy'" , "'ROOTS-L Mailing List'" , "'Scott McGee'" , "'Mike St. Clair'" Subject: Re: Asher Powell MURPHY, b. 15 Jan 1996 In-Reply-To: <01BAE394.BCC80500@ip-bend1-01.teleport.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, Congratulations...I am happy for you....:) a birth of a baby is something to be happy about...:) and hopefully someday I will experience my own little miracle +----------------------+-----------------------+ | Loralee Christian | 100 Stabern | | loraleec@imach.com | Helena MT 59601 | +----------------------+-----------------------+ | Peace and Love | +----------------------------------------------+ | An Opportunity Missed is an Opportunity lost | | Forever--- | +----------------------------------------------+ On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Jeff Murphy wrote: > My wife and I are pleased to announce to all our friends the birth of our > son Asher Powell Murphy. Asher was born tonight at 6:30 pm through a > Cesaerian section, weighing 6 lbs 4 oz. Big head. Exhausting labor. > > Mother and son are doing well, and will be home in a few days. I am > thrilled. > > If you find yourself uninterested, or unable to share our joy, we > apologize. > > Jeff Murphy Redmond, Oregon jmurphy@teleport.com > see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky > http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ > > From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 17 06:17:00 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02976 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 06:16:59 -0800 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA12218 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 06:16:02 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Cc: gedcom-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA16364; Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:13:59 EST Received: from grebe.beltway by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA00459; Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:16:02 EST Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:16:02 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601171416.AA00459@beltway> To: LINES-L@vm1.nodak.edu Subject: Re: GEDCOM, SGML etc Original-Cc: att!vm1.nodak.edu!gedcom-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Jumping onto this thread again. Genealogical programs that can make inferences about its data and then do something about those inferences have been called third generation. I don't know how many of them exist. LifeLines is not a third generation program yet. In a soon upcoming release of LifeLines there will be all the essentials required for the third generation. The LifeLines programming language can already be used to do primitive inferences; with the addition of features to modify the database (which already exist in the unrelased 3.0.3 version), you can write your own inferencing programs, say to search for families or merge candidates, and then have the program automatically create or modify the family or merge the persons. There was a mention of Prolog as a language for doing the inferencing. This is possible, of course, though it requires a database expressed as Prolog "facts." Before writing LifeLines I wrote a lot of genealogical stuff in Prolog to see if it seemed a workable solution. Two things lead me away -- performance and the tyranny of relational thinking. It was the direct results of experimenting with Prolog based systems than lead me to use GEDCOM as the underlying database model of LifeLines. Others more clever than me may have better luck with Prolog for this application. The question arises as to how easy/hard is it to do inferencing with a GEDCOM or other flexibly structured database. I think it will prove quite easy. I think the jump to third generation is not all that hard. I have long planned to write an inference engine based on "tag lists," which would be an ideal match for either GEDCOM or other SGML based genealogical data. Tom Wetmore From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 17 15:38:41 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03810 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 15:38:40 -0800 Received: from soback.kornet.nm.kr (soback.kornet.nm.kr [168.126.63.3]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10182 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 15:37:15 -0800 Received: (from cmanis@localhost) by soback.kornet.nm.kr (8.6.12+hangul/8.6.9) id IAA06773; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:33:22 +0900 From: Cliff Manis Message-Id: <199601172333.IAA06773@soback.kornet.nm.kr> Subject: Family History Pavilion on World EXPO To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:33:22 +0900 (KST) Cc: cmanis@soback.kornet.nm.kr (Cliff Manis) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21-h4] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 969 Readers: The following information is for all Genealogists and anyone around the world who has any interest in family history. This site has some super graphics. The Internet 1996 World Exposition is OPEN and on the World Wide Web The Internet 1996 World Exposition is OPEN to all ! We now have a separate Family History Pavilion on-line at: http://park.org/Pavilions/FamilyHistory For general info please visit URL http://park.org/ For info about the fair, visit URL http://park.org/About/Fair/ This WORLD WIDE exposure should really be a big aid to the Family History effort for everyone. Good luck to all in 1996. Cliff Manis Cliff Manis cmanis@progcons.com // cmanis@soback.KorNet.nm.kr Seoul, Korea GenServ "Genealogical Server" a service for making GEDCOM data available. OVER --> 2,200,000 names in this GEDCOM database server WWW Genserv Homepage URL: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/ - From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 18 04:47:41 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06486 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 04:47:40 -0800 Received: from wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (wrcd1.urz.Uni-Wuppertal.DE [132.195.20.13]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA16070 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 04:44:00 -0800 Received: from wspo04.site.uni-wuppertal.de by wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (5.61/1.34) id AA13314; Thu, 18 Jan 96 13:35:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 13:35:41 +0100 Message-Id: <9601181235.AA13314@wrcd1.urz.uni-wuppertal.de> X-Sender: wieneke2@wrcd1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: GENWEB-L From: "Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke" Subject: Scott McGee Hello,=20 I have problems reaching Scott with the address=20 Scott McGee Can anyone tell me, if there is a new address? A. Wieneke -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dipl.-Chem. A. Wieneke d.: BUGH-Wuppertal p.:=20 Gausstrasse 20 Corellistrasse 36 D-42119 Wuppertal D-40593 D=FCsseldorf =20 Tel. +49 - 202 - 439 - 32 22 +49 - 211 - 7 39 49 68 FAX +49 - 202 - 439 - 20 68 +49 - 211 - 7 39 49 68 e-mail: wieneke2@wrcs3.urz.uni-wuppertal.de Homepage: http://www.uni-wuppertal.de/fachbereiche/FB14/pohl/potitel.html From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 18 15:03:37 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA07235 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:03:36 -0800 Received: from soback.kornet.nm.kr (soback.kornet.nm.kr [168.126.63.3]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA27565 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:01:33 -0800 Received: (from cmanis@localhost) by soback.kornet.nm.kr (8.6.12+hangul/8.6.9) id HAA11728; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:57:42 +0900 From: Cliff Manis Message-Id: <199601182257.HAA11728@soback.kornet.nm.kr> Subject: Searching for a Surname ? To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:57:42 +0900 (KST) Cc: roots-l@mail.eworld.com, gedcom-l@vm1.nodak.edu, lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, cmanis@soback.kornet.nm.kr (Cliff Manis) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21-h4] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3487 Readers: The GenSearch (Genealogical Search) is a ONE-TIME Search for any surname. It was made available as a contribution to those accessing the Internet 1996 World Exposition Family History Pavilion. The GenSearch access is available THIS YEAR to anyone around the world for a ONE-TIME surname information request per Internet user-id. This search is made available by the use of data on the GenServ Genealogical GEDCOM Server System. During the first TEN days of operation, the GenSearch program has sent out over 3900 reports to more than 2100 different email addresses around the world. We have had requests from more then 29 different countries. This is what the Internet is all about. We hope you will participate. The system is waiting on the next request. As of December 1995, The GenServ System had over 2 MILLION surnames (over 125,000 different surnames) in GEDCOM data files for your research and will probably add another 2 Million names during 1996. You may search for ANY one name surname (This server will NOT search for a multipart surname). You will receive ONE complete listing of any surname which is on the GenServ System. You must put the Surname desired as the Subject line. This server will not read any part of a message except the Subject: line. Please: DO NOT attempt to use the GenSearch Server more than once. It only works one time per email address ! WARNING: If you have an account with a provider which charges by byte-count, please be aware that many, many of the surnames will send out several thousand bytes of information in multiple messages of about 28k each. i.e. With a name like JONES you would receive about 25 different messages. The surname SMITH will send out about 56 messages, each one being about 28k. You can find GenSearch by going to the The Family History Pavilion URL: http://park.org/Pavilions/FamilyHistory You may also go direct to the GenServ URL for info: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/gssearch.htm For those of you who do not have access to the web. You may request a one-time search for any 'one' surname, by send an email message to GenSearch@ProgCons.COM Do not put ANYTHING but the SURNAME in the Subject of message like this: Subject: Peterson The GenServ System has been operational on the Internet since 1991. It only costs ONE DOLLAR per MONTH to become a Regular USER and get full access to the GenServ System. You may obtain more information about the GenServ System by requesting the latest GenServ Information file dated 1 Jan 96. It is available by simply sending ANY Email message to the following Internet address: GenServ-Doc@ProgCons.COM We hope you will consider becoming a USER of the GenServ System. The GenServ information file is about 60,000 bytes long. You may learn more about the this system, see examples of reports available, or get the GenServ information by accessing the GenServ homepage on WWW at URL http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/ Good luck to all. Cliff Manis -- Cliff Manis cmanis@progcons.com // cmanis@soback.KorNet.nm.kr Seoul, Korea GenServ "Genealogical Server" a service for making GEDCOM data available. OVER --> 2,000,000 names in this GEDCOM database server For GenServ Documentation, and complete information about the GenServ just send any message to this Internet address: genserv-doc@progcons.com WWW Genserv Homepage URL: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/ - From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 22 11:55:50 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA21474 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:55:43 -0800 Received: from connect.net (ns.connect.net [199.1.91.2]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07714; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:51:15 -0800 Received: from beau.connect.net by connect.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA16278; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:39:03 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 13:27:05 PST From: Beau Sharbrough Subject: GENTECH96 Tech Sessions FAQ To: Helm Matthew Lynn , Anderson Robert <74214.421@compuserve.com>, Burris Gene <74224.1771@compuserve.com>, Claunch Larry , Collier Kelly <103304.2654@compuserve.com>, Dow Bill , Hall Roland , Kerns Larry , Mavrogeorge Brian , Morris Travis <75013.1532@compuserve.com>, Mutzabaugh Pat , Phipps Alan , Raney Don , Rice Dennis , Rubeck Art <71511.3065@compuserve.com>, Sanford Al , Slade Jim , Steele Jeri , Troyer Carl , Wylie Barbara , Wylie John , Archer George , Doyle Timothy B , Eastman Dick <76701.263@compuserve.com>, Gehring Jacob G , Hamner Judy <75300.2161@compuserve.com>, Hoffman Gary , Ledden Larry <71543.2760@compuserve.com>, Mann Alan E , Pence Richard , Quarterman John S , Schmidt Jennifer , StClair Mike <71552.3314@compuserve.com>, Velke Bob <74774.653@compuserve.com>, Whitaker Beverly , Whitaker John , Witcher Curt B , York Brad , Pierre Cloutier , List-GEDCOM , List-GenWeb X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To Persons interested in the GENTECH96 Tech Sessions: Below, I've pasted part of the web page at: http://www.connect.net/beau/gentech/gt96tech.htm It includes the finalized program, as well as a request prospective attendees email me so that I can get a rough headcount. I have received a number of questions about this recently, so I'd ask first that you view the web page, and second that you peruse this brief FAQ. Are the Tech Sessions open to the public? Yes, but be warned that if you have never used a computer for genealogy, you might not enjoy the sessions much. The topics and the content of the presentation are intended to be technical. Also, please email me if you plan to attend so that I can have an approximate headcount. There are only so many cookies - I'll share, but I won't do without! Is there a fee for attending the Tech Sessions? No. When and where are the Tech Sessions to be held? Please see the Web Page excerpt below. Are these like the Tech Meetings at GENTECH the past three years? No, I don't expect them to be. Last year's meeting was so well attended that it seemed too difficult to maintain a focused discussion. By switching to a one-way flow of information, (followed by q&a) we hope we will be able to focus the discussions more, and to cover more ground. It is my opinion that after you get about 25 people into a room, the probability for a useful group discussion plummets asymptotically. Grapevine 01/22/96 13:27:05 ================================================================ Beau Sharbrough | GENTECH96, THE conference for Technology | and Genealogy - Jan 26-27, Plano TX www.connect.net/beau | www.connect.net/beau/gentech ================================================================ GENTECH96 Technical Sessions The Technical Sessions will be held in the Northbrook Room at Plano Centre on January 25, 1996. The sessions are scheduled to begin at 2pm, and end by approximately 5pm. The content of the presentations will be very technical. Please E-mail Beau Sharbrough if you plan to attend. The format of the Sessions will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session to last the remainder of the half hour. The Sessions will be moderated, and the time limits will be observed. List of Presentations The topics to be presented are: 2:00p - Online support of genealogy products on CompuServe - Dick Eastman Dick Eastman, manager of CompuServe's two genealogy forums, will present what is available today on CompuServe for the genealogy software developer or for anyone else who wishes to provide electronic support of customers in a cost-effective manner. This will include brief descriptions of the use of the two genealogy forums, Internet services available, establishing your own World Wide Web home page at almost no cost, personalized email addresses, the new "smart rules" email service available and other related topics 2:30p - Genealogical descendant charts from LifeLines into PostScript - John S Quarterman The chart program, written in C, produces color or black and white genealogical descendant charts in PostScript, positioning person boxes and folding lines to shape boxes and charts in order to display a large amount of information legibly. Together with its LifeLines report generator, chartrep, chart also handles intergenerational intermarriages. Its Perl postprocessor, chartile, permits printing arbitrarily large charts by dividing them into multiple pages (tiles). 3:00p - A Survey of GENSERV - Jeri Steele Information about this matching program. 3:30p - Data Conversion - Bob Velke The case for using a direct conversion engine to import genealogy data, as opposed to the double conversion to and from GEDCOM. 4:00p - GENTECH Data Exchange Project - Beau Sharbrough An update on the status of this project. See our web page for other information. 4:30p - Lexicon Working Group - Robert C Anderson An update on the status of the Lexicon Working Group, a joint effort between FGS and GENTECH to create a lexicon of genealogy objects and their relationships. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 25 05:25:59 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA02502 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:25:58 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA26336 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:22:32 -0800 Received: from ip-bend1-25.teleport.com (ip-bend1-25.teleport.com [206.163.116.57]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA21135 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:22:30 -0800 Received: by ip-bend1-25.teleport.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAEAE5.34D080C0@ip-bend1-25.teleport.com>; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:23:06 -0800 Message-ID: <01BAEAE5.34D080C0@ip-bend1-25.teleport.com> From: Jeff Murphy To: "'GenWeb mailing list'" Subject: Indexes to gedcoms Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 04:43:05 -0800 Encoding: 31 TEXT I received a message today that asked me to break down my surname index into smaller chunks, as the 3.7Mb took a long time to download at 14.4. Well, I am actually on Scott McGee's server, and Lifelines is dynamically generating the html. GED2HTML generates a very nice index with one html per letter - 26 in all. I would really like Lifelines to generate a similar index, but wonder about the space requirements. I have seen a new page come up where the individual used GED2HTML to generate the gedcom, then just did not bother to upload anything but the index. He just didn't have the space available on his server. It was a clever idea, but not optimum. Gene Stark's integrated index does solve the problem, as far as I'm concerned: I can just refer the user to that index, and hopefully he can jump around as needed to check out the names. But this user's request points out a problem that needs to be considered by all software developers that have not included a surname index broken down alphabetically. One quick solution, Tom, might be to add a brief selection page up front, then allow your program to display only those surnames which match the criteria. But I think there are probably better ways. Just an idea. The genweb messages have sort of died off since the discussion about how to link the various databases. Have you guys come to any kind of resolution about this? Jeff Murphy Redmond, Oregon jmurphy@teleport.com see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ please note change of address: 735 NW 8th, Redmond, OR 97756 From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 25 06:06:06 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA02533 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:06:04 -0800 Received: from faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.2.45]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA22819 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:05:44 -0800 Received: from immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (root@faui80.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.38.1]) by uni-erlangen.de with SMTP id PAA01426 (8.6.12/7.4f-FAU); for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:05:23 +0100 Received: from faui8c by immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de; id AA29867 (5.x/7.3w-FAU); Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:05:21 +0100 From: Herbert Stoyan Message-Id: <9601251405.AA29867@immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:05:19 +0100 To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Indexes to gedcoms X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII I have created a `more' machinery which gives indexes in chunks of 100 persons (links). You can start this machinery with some starting name. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 29 21:50:08 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18983 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:50:07 -0800 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10966 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:51:48 -0800 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA24731; Mon, 29 Jan 96 23:56:27 CST Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma024729; Mon, 29 Jan 96 23:56:03 -0600 Received: by mcrware.microware.com id AA25754 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:52:01 -0600 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:52:01 -0600 From: Scott McGee Message-Id: <199601300552.AA25754@mcrware.microware.com> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, wieneke2@wrcs3.urz.uni-wuppertal.de Subject: Re: Scott McGee Content-Length: 886 >I have problems reaching Scott with the address > > Scott McGee Hmm, good address, no idea why you couldn't reach me unless you did in fact reach me, and it is one of several hundred I have yet to go through. I had to be out of state due to a family emergency for the last two weeks. If you are getting bounced mail, try smcgee@emcee.com instead. Scott GENEALOGY | Do you know who your ancestors are? | Scott McGee -----------+---------------------------------------+--------------------- email: smcgee@microware.com | What? Me speak for web: http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/homepage.html | someone else? Nah! ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------- See my genealogy page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee and my GenWeb page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/genweb From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 30 02:13:22 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA21051 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:13:21 -0800 Received: from bugs.napanet.net (bugs.napanet.net [157.22.192.15]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA19327 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:16:06 -0800 Received: from pma30.napanet.net (pma30.napanet.net [157.22.193.30]) by bugs.napanet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA07944 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:16:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:16:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199601301016.CAA07944@bugs.napanet.net> X-Sender: jmrubins@napanet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: jmrubins@napanet.net (Jim Rubins) Subject: Re: From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 30 04:06:49 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA21121 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:06:49 -0800 Received: from Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.11.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA19271 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:05:57 -0800 Received: by Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/260, SunOS 4.0) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS/mizar id AA29308; Tue, 30 Jan 96 13:05:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 13:05:24 +0100 From: Anders Andersson Message-Id: <9601301205.AA29308@Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, jmrubins@napanet.net Subject: Mailing list administrivia Cc: QRHV83A@prodigy.com [GenWeb project group: Operations] Jim Rubins writes in response to Scott W. DeVault: >>From: "Scott W. DeVault" >>UNSUBSCRIBE GENWEB >> >>For some reason this morning this message was in my inbox...??? >Please figure out what is happening with your automatic responder. It is >responding too automatically! I don't think you can blame Scott here; we all see the same messages. This is because occasionally, people send administrative messages to , which they shouldn't. Subscription requests (and requests to be removed from the GenWeb list) should be sent to according to the procedure described on the WWW page , of which the relevant part follows: How to Join or Leave the GenWeb Mailing List You may subscribe to the GenWeb mailing list and receive current messages into your e-mail account. To subscribe to or unsubscribe from the GenWeb mailing list, Send e-mail to "listserv@ucsd.edu" with any subject. In the body of the message, type either "add" or "delete" followed by the word "genweb". (don't use the quotes, of course.) Before you click "Send", be sure your return address is correct. Keep in mind that a number of different procedures for managing mailing lists have been developed during the history of the Internet. Rather than disputing the relative merits of one procedure over another, I think we can and must accept this diversity, and allow each independent group to select the procedures best suited to their conditions. I.e. don't send "subscribe" messages to a mailing list unless you have been told that this is the procedure for subscribing to that particular mailing list (and if someone is propagating the misconception that you can subscribe to *any* mailing list by sending mail to it, then I'd like to talk to that person). -- Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden Phone: +46 18 183170 EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 31 11:41:05 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA25496 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:41:05 -0800 Received: from most.magec.com (gw1.magec.com [151.168.2.3]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA20216 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:37:31 -0800 Received: by most.magec.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22360; Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:37:18 EST Received: from unknown(151.168.254.82) by gw1 via smap (V1.3mjr) id smI022279; Wed Jan 31 14:35:11 1996 Received: by most (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08162; Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:35:06 EST Message-Id: <9601311935.AA08162@most> Received: from pseserv3.magec.com(151.168.254.223) by most via smap (V1.5khhunt) id sma008145; Wed Jan 31 14:34:28 1996 Received: by pseserv3 (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA14674; Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:33:16 -0500 From: "W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)" Subject: mail management question To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:33:12 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] If you're getting two copies of this, you'll understand it better :-) Before I do it myself (assuming I could find the time) does the following already exist? Mail Utility Requirements: 1. In any commonly available Unix-compatible language 2. Needs no operator intervention (potential for wee hours cron job). 3. Reads in a "standard" (ha-ha) mailfile, and finds messages that are duplicate except for headers and signatures. Deletes all but the most recent, and re-writes the file to its original path/name. 4. OPTIONAL ENHANCEMENT: Append or insert something like: This message was also received from khjdfghkj@khjdfkhl at 13:00 32 Jan 5. OPTIONAL ENHANCEMENT: If the body is less than X bytes, and contains only lines that match items in a user-defined list of regular expressions, then delete those also. (I know that procmail does item 5 already) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wesley Groleau - Senior Software Engineer - AFATDS Magnavox Electronic Systems Company * Fort Wayne, IN 46808 * (219) 429- Internet: wwgrol@most.fw.hac.com * MOST: wwgrol@most ---------------------------------------------------------------------------