January 1996 From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Dec 31 18:23:08 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA01624 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 1995 18:23:07 -0800 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA18905 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 1995 18:24:58 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA03951; Sun, 31 Dec 95 21:23:06 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA20261; Sun, 31 Dec 95 21:24:51 EST Date: Sun, 31 Dec 95 21:24:51 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601010224.AA20261@beltway> Original-To: att!vm1.nodak.edu!lines-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: Hot Genealogy with HotJava Liners and Webbers, Any of you into Java for genealogy yet? Just wondering. I'm thinking of converting LifeLines to Java as my introduction to Java and Java programming. If the report language were also Java, then LifeLines report programs could become Java applets. It's quite conceiveable that we genealogists could establish a genealogy protocol for genealogical data interchange, implement it with Java, and then use HotJava or other Java-aware browsers as our GenWeb browser. We would then have our own Internet protocol for genealogy and the applets needed so that anyone could participate fully in the GenWeb without needing any knowledge about setting up their environment. I've become very impressed by Java, and I am old, crusty guy who rarely gets impressed. Java is C++ done right and a lot of other things. Tom Wetmore From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 1 01:05:25 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01979 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 1996 01:05:24 -0800 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA24852 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 1996 01:06:25 -0800 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA21165; Mon, 1 Jan 96 03:03:57 CST Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma021163; Mon, 1 Jan 96 03:03:32 -0600 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA19078 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:05:04 -0600 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Mon, 1 Jan 96 03:05:04 CST Date: Mon, 1 Jan 96 03:05:04 CST Message-Id: <9601010905.AA09532@wales> To: elijah-l@emcee.com, emcee@emcee.com, gedcom-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU, lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, questions@emcee.com, ttw@beltway.att.com, zion@sims.net Subject: Happy New Year (but relavant to all these groups!) Cc: smcgee@emcee.com Hi all. As surprising as it may sound, considering the cross-posting to the wide variety of groups that I am doing, this New Year's greeting is relavant. Why, all these groups share some intrest in genealogy, and that is what I want to talk about! (Note: While this cross-posted message is relavant [IMHO] to all groups, a reply probably isn't. Many of these groups are only marginally or tagentially interested in genealogy, so don't cross-post replies! Scott) I have just finished looking at month-end statistics on my GenWeb server, which uses Tom Wetmore's LifeLines genealogy program to serve Genealogy Databases on the World Wide Web. For the month of December, 1995, the twelve databases I now serve had a total of 31,855 queries! That is over 1000 a day! The twelve database have a combined total of just under 80 thousand names. They are all indexed on Gene Stark's GENDEX index site, and constitute nearly a third (unless my late night math is messed up - a possibility) of the total number of names indexed there. I am very pleased with the popularity of this service, and plan to continue to offer this to the public, free of charge, as long as possible. I would like to thank Tom Wetmore (author of LifeLines - the core of the server) and Michael Cooley (owner of the Site!) for their generosity in providing their respective services to me. If anyone is interested in having their own database served with my GenWeb server, contact me by email at smcgee@microware.com to arrange it. (This is also a free service). You can also contact me to see if you can set up a copy of my server on your own site free of charge. Anyway, I am looking forward to what the New Year will bring with this service. I hope to add new functionality. Please let me know what you think of the server now, and what you would like to see. Happy New Year, and happy ancestor hunting to all! Scott GENEALOGY | Do you know who your ancestors are? | Scott McGee -----------+---------------------------------------+--------------------- email: smcgee@microware.com | What? Me speak for web: http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/homepage.html | someone else? Nah! ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------- See my genealogy page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee and my GenWeb page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/genweb From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 1 03:25:36 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA03947 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:25:34 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA28113 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:22:54 -0800 Received: from ip-bend1-23.teleport.com (ip-bend1-23.teleport.com [206.163.116.55]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA20218; Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:22:49 -0800 Received: by ip-bend1-23.teleport.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAD7F8.715D2160@ip-bend1-23.teleport.com>; Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:22:55 -0800 Message-ID: <01BAD7F8.715D2160@ip-bend1-23.teleport.com> From: Jeff Murphy To: "'Elijah-L mailing list'" , "'KYROOTS mailing list'" , "'ROOTS-L Mailing List'" Cc: "'GenWeb mailing list'" Subject: Queries available for Muhlenberg Co., KY Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:22:27 -0800 Encoding: 15 TEXT After much wrestling with mailmerge, I have added a query facility to my home page for those researching in Muhlenberg Co. This allows you to list the lines, individuals, families, etc. for which you are searching, and other researchers will be able to contact you via email from my page. Unlike so many of these Internet facilities, this is envisioned to be a long-term contact point for Muhlenberg researchers. And you are almost guaranteed to get at least one reply, even if it is only from me. :-) Jeff Murphy Redmond, OR jmurphy@teleport.com see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 3 08:48:21 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA11768 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 08:48:21 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA03679 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 08:48:00 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA00826; Wed, 3 Jan 96 11:46:05 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA26339; Wed, 3 Jan 96 11:47:52 EST Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 11:47:52 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601031647.AA26339@beltway> Original-To: att!vm1.nodak.edu!lines-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: LifeLines Users Guide on Web Liners, Webbers, FYI, the LifeLines Users Guide (the first half of the old Quick Reference) is now available on the web. Easiest path is to go to my home page: http://genealogy.org/~ttw and click to the LifeLines page and then click to the Users Guide. Note that I use Netscape tables, so you should use a browser compantible with that. I will have the Programmers Reference available soon. Tom Wetmore, ttw@shore.net, ttw@beltway.att.com From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 3 11:50:10 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA12084 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:50:10 -0800 Received: from s2.sonnet.com (moa1.moa.com [204.118.242.2]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16177 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:47:21 -0800 From: lazy2bs@s2.sonnet.com Received: from sonnet.com.s2.sonnet.com (ppp12-mod.sonnet.com) by s2.sonnet.com with SMTP id AA02681 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:47:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199601031947.AA02681@s2.sonnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU, ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:47:16 +0000 Subject: LOOKING FOR Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) I'm looking for these surnames, if anyone can help I would appreciate it. Thank you!! CLINK, WAWRYCHUK, KRASOWSKI, FORBUSH, FLINT, WING, RICKEY, AND BROWN. If you can help, please contact me at: lazy2bs@s2.sonnet.com From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 3 16:18:44 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA12638 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:18:43 -0800 Received: from iccu6.ipswich.gil.com.au (iccu6.ipswich.gil.com.au [203.1.75.10]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02753 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:16:12 -0800 Received: from NULL (ad50-016.compuserve.com [199.174.167.16]) by iccu6.ipswich.gil.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03457; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:15:28 +1000 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:15:28 +1000 Message-Id: <199601040015.KAA03457@iccu6.ipswich.gil.com.au> X-Sender: bobmack@mail.ipswich.gil.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU, ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) From: Robert Mackinnon Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR Surnames I'm looking for these surnames, if anyone can help I would appreciate it. Thank you!! Mackinnon, McKinnon, Scott, MacLaughlan If you can help, please contact me at: bobmack@gil.com.au From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 3 20:46:44 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA13134 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 20:46:43 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA13597 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 20:46:55 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA09291; Wed, 3 Jan 96 23:45:06 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA01495; Wed, 3 Jan 96 23:46:56 EST Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 23:46:56 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601040446.AA01495@beltway> Original-To: att!vm1.nodak.edu!lines-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: LifeLines Prog Ref on WWW Liners/Webbers, I just put the LifeLines Programmers Reference on the WWW. Access it through either of my home pages: http://www.shore.net/~ttw http://genealogy.org/~ttw Click on LifeLines then on Programmers Reference. As in the case of the Users Guide, which I put on the web last night, the Prog. Ref. uses tables, so you should use Netscape to view these files. You will find it very convenient to have the Prog. Ref. on your screen while developing LifeLines programs -- a good on-line manual. Best of luck. Tom Wetmore, ttw@shore.net, ttw@beltway.att.com From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 3 21:11:06 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA13162 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 21:11:06 -0800 Received: from ProgCons.COM (flattop.fc.net [204.157.166.66]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14320 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 21:12:03 -0800 Received: by ProgCons.COM (Smail3.1.28.1b #3) id m0tXhy1-0001CcC; Wed, 3 Jan 96 23:11 CST Message-Id: From: cmanis@ProgCons.COM (Cliff Manis) Subject: Internet 1996 World Exposition and GenSearch To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:11:56 -0600 (CST) Cc: cmanis@ProgCons.COM (Cliff Manis) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2572 Readers I am posting this message for two announcements: The following information is for all Genealogists and anyone around the world who has any interest in family history. 1. The Internet 1996 World Exposition is OPEN and on the World Wide Web The Internet 1996 World Exposition is OPEN to all ! The FAIR is OPEN now. For general info please visit URL http://park.org/ For info about the fair, visit URL http://park.org/About/Fair/ This WORLD WIDE exposure should really be a big aid to the Family History effort for everyone. 2. GenSearch - Genealogical ONE-TIME Search for any surname. We hope you take a look at the GenServ WWW page listed below and use it for a search of any surname for your own family history. The GenSearch (Genealogical Search) is available as a contribution to those accessing the Internet 1996 World Exposition and anyone around the world as they see this notice. Please visit URL http://park.org/Pavilions/People/ The GenSearch access will be available THIS YEAR to anyone around the world as a ONE-TIME request per Internet user-id. This search is made available by the use of data on the GenServ Genealogical GEDCOM Server System. You may also go direct to URL for info: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/gssearch.htm The GenServ System has over 2 MILLION surnames in GEDCOM data files (Dec 95) for your research and will probably add another 2 Million names during 1996. We have over 125,000 different surnames in the system now. You may obtain more information about the cost involved for using the GenServ System by requesting the latest GenServ Information file dated 1 Jan 96. It is available by simply sending any Email message to the following Internet address: GenServ-Doc@ProgCons.COM The GenServ System has been operational on the Internet since 1991. We hope you will consider becoming a USER of the GenServ System. The GenServ information file is about 60,000 bytes long. Full access to the GenServ system costs only ONE DOLLAR per MONTH. The GenServ Homepage is listed on the EXPO now in the People Pavilion "Find Your Family Tree." Please check it when you have time. URL http://park.org/Pavilions/People/ You may learn more about the this system, see examples of reports available, or get the GenServ information by accessing the GenServ homepage on WWW at URL http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~cmanis/ Good luck to all. Cliff Manis -- Cliff Manis cmanis@progcons.com Seoul, Korea - From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jan 3 23:19:23 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA13283 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:19:22 -0800 Received: from faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.2.45]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17755 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:20:00 -0800 Received: from immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (root@faui80.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.38.1]) by uni-erlangen.de with SMTP id IAA02207 (8.6.12/7.4f-FAU); for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 08:19:55 +0100 Received: from faui8c by immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de; id AA06451 (5.x/7.3w-FAU); Thu, 4 Jan 1996 08:19:53 +0100 From: Herbert Stoyan Message-Id: <9601040719.AA06451@immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 08:19:51 +0100 To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Lifelines: Speed, comfort, etc. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Tom is quite eager to move Lifelines to Hotjava. Is this an important theme? At present, the Lifelines scripts run on our computers and take our resources. Can we reach a state that the script run is done at the accessors computer? I fear, that the scripts have to access the data base -- and this will remain on the servers computer. Now, aren't there themes which are more important than to move into Hotjava? Is Lifelines really fast enough? Are you all happy with the speed? Can this be made better? I would like to see a Lifelines version with two new iterators: an iterator "forsources(node,i)" which iterates over all sources in a data base and "forrecords(tag,node,i)" which iterates over all level 0 records of some given tag in the data base. I still miss a set-membership test. An important thing would be a new interface to Lifelines. The courses-thing is a little bild old. A PC(windows)-version would be an important thing. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 4 05:15:28 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA15399 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 05:15:28 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA27663 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 05:16:25 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA05143; Thu, 4 Jan 96 08:14:22 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA01098; Thu, 4 Jan 96 08:16:13 EST Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 08:16:13 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601041316.AA01098@beltway> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: LifeLines: Speed, comfort, etc. Herbert(>): >Tom is quite eager to move Lifelines to Hotjava. Is this an important theme? I don't know. >At present, the Lifelines scripts run on our computers and take our resources. >Can we reach a state that the script run is done at the accessors computer? You're assuming that a HotJava version of LifeLines would basically be the same kind of system as LifeLines today is. I think that is an incorrect assumption. >I fear, that the scripts have to access the data base -- and this will >remain on the servers computer. However, some gtp ("genealogy transport protocol") files could be transported to the accessors computer along with the applets required to convert that gtp file into a report, or a GEDCOM, or a LifeLines database, and so on. The idea behind of HotJava is to have specific file format and file protocols defined, have information in that format be transportable between sites, and have Java applets defined which can process those files on the local machines. Just a quick example. We could imagine an "ancestor addition" function. This function would be started by an applet that would run on you machine, looking at your database (LifeLines or HotLines). After inspecting your database the applet would send off at gtp message to another site, requesting data that could extend one of your lines. If there is a positive match, the new data could be loaded onto your machine, and the applet already there, or another applet that loaded with the new data, could take over and merge the new data into you database. It is for operations like this that I think we GenWebbers must be preparing ourselves for the Internet. >Now, aren't there themes which are more important than to move into Hotjava? A matter of opinion, or course. >Is Lifelines really fast enough? Are you all happy with the speed? Can this be >made better? LifeLines is fast enough for me. There are places, especially in GEDCOM import, where it would be nice to speed it up, and I have a long list of ideas to do so, including multi-threading, optimizied caches, pre-batching of records, and so on, but implementing these ideas is not high on the list. >I would like to see a Lifelines version with two new iterators: >an iterator "forsources(node,i)" which iterates over all sources in a data >base and "forrecords(tag,node,i)" which iterates over all level 0 records >of some given tag in the data base. These are in 3.0.3, but there are three difficult changes I need to make to other parts of 3.0.3 before I can release it. >I still miss a set-membership test. Ditto: in 3.0.3. >An important thing would be a new interface to Lifelines. The courses-thing is >a little bild old. A PC(windows)-version would be an important thing. I am not proud of the LifeLines users interface. My ideas of porting LifeLines to the Mac are prompted by my desire to give LifeLines a nice user interface. Let me be honest, though: I have no intentions of giving the UNIX version of LifeLines a new user interface. Yours, Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net From smcgee@microware.com Thu Jan 4 10:02:07 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA15691 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:02:02 -0800 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA04431 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 08:53:19 -0800 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA24280; Thu, 4 Jan 96 10:17:52 CST Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma024269; Thu, 4 Jan 96 10:17:32 -0600 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA02171 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:19:05 -0600 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Thu, 4 Jan 96 10:19:02 CST Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 10:19:02 CST Message-Id: <9601041619.AA02204@wales> To: lazy2bs@s2.sonnet.com, sseibert@tenet.edu Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR Cc: genweb@ucsd.edu, lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu The lists GENWEB-L and LINES-L are for discussing the use of various tools (genweb or LifeLines, depending on the list) for use in genealogy, not for conducting genealogical queries. Especially, please do not crosspost queries to both groups unless you are SURE they are applicable to both. Poor Tom Wetmore has been getting these requests sent to him directly plus a copy from each of the lists. I am sure he must be a bit tired of it. We have many lists for asking how to find people, please let us use these groups for exploring the tools they are designed to support. Thanks Scott (a member of both lists - plus several others!) GENEALOGY | Do you know who your ancestors are? | Scott McGee -----------+---------------------------------------+--------------------- email: smcgee@microware.com | What? Me speak for web: http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/homepage.html | someone else? Nah! ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------- See my genealogy page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee and my GenWeb page at http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/genweb From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 4 11:49:00 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA15850 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:49:00 -0800 Received: from mons.uio.no (mons.uio.no [129.240.200.26]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA18156 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:49:51 -0800 Received: from ulrik.uio.no by mons.uio.no with local-SMTP (PP) id <13640-0@mons.uio.no>; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:49:34 +0100 Received: from pcnutri45 by pons.uio.no ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:49:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199601041949.UAA24170@pons.uio.no> X-Sender: achristo@pons.uio.no X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 20:49:31 +0100 To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: Alf Christophersen Subject: Suggestion to move genweb to mail.eWorld.com Since so many ignorant people misuse the list for messages that should be posted on Roots-L@mail.eWorld.com or alike, I suggest that we move genweb to the same site where the Listserv program has possibilities to put addresses on a black mail list so they are prevented to post on genweb. I would also suggest that the subscription routines to be changed. People should write to the list owner and ask to be added to the list. They must then tell the listowner why they want to get added to the list. So if people tells the list owner that they want to be added in order to search for relatives, the list owner has a good chance to deny the person to be added. I would also suppose that people who misuse the list more than 5 times, that is, post messages not related to the tema or messages for the running of the list, should have a warning and next time be put on black mail, that is, the filter which is embedded in Listserver which is used at mail.eWorld.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- Alf Christophersen, Computer engineer Nordic School of Nutrition, PO Box 1046, Blindern, N-0316 Oslo Norway Tel. +47 22 85 13 27, Fax: 22 85 15 32 Roots-L@mail.e-world.com list owner Editor of 'Slekt og Data', Quarterly organ of DIS-Norge, PO Box 146, Manglerud N-0612 Oslo URL: http://www.uio.no/~achristo soc.genealogy.nordic, no.slekt and no.slekt.programmer proponent From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 4 12:30:22 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA15940 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:30:21 -0800 Received: from lighthouse.maingo.com ([204.184.50.24]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA21148 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:29:39 -0800 Received: (from tfries@localhost) by lighthouse.maingo.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA01235; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:06:20 -0600 Posted-Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:06:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199601041706.LAA01235@lighthouse.maingo.com> Subject: Re: Lifelines: Speed, comfort, etc. To: Herbert.Stoyan@informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Herbert Stoyan) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:06:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU In-Reply-To: <9601040719.AA06451@immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> from "Herbert Stoyan" at Jan 4, 96 08:19:51 am From: tfries@umr.edu (Todd Fries) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3516 > Tom is quite eager to move Lifelines to Hotjava. Is this an important theme? Actually, I thought Tom was interested in learning HotJava, and was thinking of moving the LifeLines style of functionality with genealogical databases to Java as an excuse/incentive to learn it. Maybe it was just me. > At present, the Lifelines scripts run on our computers and take our resources. > Can we reach a state that the script run is done at the accessors computer? > I fear, that the scripts have to access the data base -- and this will > remain on the servers computer. I don't see why one couldn't 'implement' the java'ized lines program to, when doing a 'database query', using either the local database on the hd, or a remote database on a remote computer...assuming lines would be able to run as a stand-alone server on a computer, allowing queries to its database. I see the 'database server' idea to be useful, as then one could query a remote database, and then run one's local 'lines report' programs on the information, which (imho) opens up loads of possibilities, not the least of which includes 'importing' information from remote computers directly. > Now, aren't there themes which are more important than to move into Hotjava? Maybe in your estimation. Tom has stated before he doesn't have an intel machine around to program for, and doesn't particularly like them; plus you just remember it is not your program of which you speak. It is Tom's free time and personal tastes. I would think that in the age of the coming of Java, lifelines would become a widely used genealogical tool if Tom manages to make it as flexible on the web and our computers as he has made it on our computers...just my own opinion, though.. > Is Lifelines really fast enough? Are you all happy with the speed? Can this be > made better? Huh? Remember, we're not dealing with a company, whom we pay for a superb product. We're allowed to shair the result of Tom's free time. I would hope that if you are not pleased with it's speed, Tom would appreciate some valid critiquing/patches that would 'speed' it up... > I would like to see a Lifelines version with two new iterators: > an iterator "forsources(node,i)" which iterates over all sources in a data base > and "forrecords(tag,node,i)" which iterates over all level 0 records > of some given tag in the data base. > I still miss a set-membership test. Hrm, do I hear a volunteer to talk to Tom about how to implement it? Remember, you do have the sources... > An important thing would be a new interface to Lifelines. The courses-thing is > a little bild old. Well, to each his own opinion. If I were to run a majorly graphical app, like maybe java, or some other huge interface program like netscape, I tend to swap quite a bit. I find that the text-alternative is quite appealing. This is why I use lynx alot more than netscape. It's not nearly as pretty, but I get alot more accomplished. > A PC(windows)-version would be an important thing. Hrm, sounds like you're showing your true colors. As I mentioned above, Tom isn't real keen on the pc thing. The only reason there exists a DOS version is because someone took the time to compile a working version of LifeLines for DOS, it was tested, and Tom was convinced that it worked reasonably well. I hope I have been accurate in the above, but please correct me anywhere I 'flubered'... -- Todd Fries...tfries@umr.edu http://www.cs.umr.edu/~tfries From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 4 14:11:48 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA16151 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:11:48 -0800 Received: from bort.mv.net (bort.mv.net [192.80.84.6]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA27669 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:04:09 -0800 Received: from pca.mv.com (pca.mv.com [199.125.101.192]) by bort.mv.net (8.6.10/mv(b)/mem-951016) with SMTP id RAA04903; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:03:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199601042203.RAA04903@bort.mv.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bill " Organization: PCA To: Scott McGee Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:07:34 -5000 Subject: USENET Newsgroup(s) Reply-to: wlp@pca.mv.com CC: genweb@UCSD.EDU, lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) On 4 Jan 96 at 10:19, Scott McGee wrote: > The lists GENWEB-L and LINES-L are for discussing the use of various tools > (genweb or LifeLines, depending on the list) for use in genealogy, not for > conducting genealogical queries. Especially, please do not crosspost queries > to both groups unless you are SURE they are applicable to both. > > Poor Tom Wetmore has been getting these requests sent to him directly plus a > copy from each of the lists. I am sure he must be a bit tired of it. > > We have many lists for asking how to find people, please let us use these > groups for exploring the tools they are designed to support. <*snipped> Scott-- What about newsgroups instead of/augmenting these mailing lists? Seems like that might be more appropriate. Regards. ----------------------- Bill Penney E-Mail: wlp@pca.mv.com ----------------------- From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jan 4 20:45:21 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA16728 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:45:20 -0800 Received: from Mako.Stanford.EDU (Mako.Stanford.EDU [171.64.75.38]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA16235 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:46:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Mako.Stanford.EDU (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id UAA01788; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:45:19 -0800 (PST) From: Dallan Quass Message-Id: <199601050445.UAA01788@Mako.Stanford.EDU> X-Authentication-Warning: Mako.Stanford.EDU: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: ttw@beltway.att.com cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Java In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Jan 96 08:16:13 EST." <9601041316.AA01098@beltway> Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 20:45:19 -0800 X-Mts: smtp I don't know much about Java. Is it possible within Java to make an http call to fetch a url (similarly, to submit a form)? Is it possible for Java to update a file on a server, say through the ftp protocol? What about being able to write to the disk at the client? I am under the impression that one of Java's goals is increased security, which may preclude Java from being able to read/write files on the client's local disk? I think it would be really cool if I could enter my genealogy using a Java application and add seamless links to people at other sites, but in order to do this the Java application needs to have a way to write a file in order to save my changes. As you say, we could come up with a "gtp" protocol to send genealogical information to a gtp server to be saved. That's not a problem for me since I am at a university -- I run my own web server so I can do whatever I want. But aren't there a lot of people that don't have the ability to run a server or a cgi-bin script because their company or service provider doesn't let them? People who can only put html pages on their server? Is there some way we can help them do their genealogy with Java? Maybe the best way is to allow them to store their genealogy on a site containing a "gtp" server. Do you think people would accept having a copy of their genealogy stored at someone else's server? -Dallan From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 5 06:43:12 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA19111 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06:43:11 -0800 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA25285 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06:41:37 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Cc: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA14989; Fri, 5 Jan 96 09:39:08 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA04716; Fri, 5 Jan 96 09:40:59 EST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 09:40:59 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601051440.AA04716@beltway> To: smcgee@microware.com Subject: Pushing LifeLines/Gengine onto the World Wide Web Original-Cc: att!vm1.nodak.edu!lines-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Liners/Webbers, This mail started as a response directly to Scott McGee. However there is some stuff about moving genealogy further into the interactive Internet world in the last half that some of you might be interested in reading. I get the impression that Scott and I may begin using Gengine (a more Web friendly version of LifeLines) as an experimental test bed for a more dynamic and applet-based approach to GenWeb computing. T. Wetmore - - - - - - - - - - Scott, Got your recent mails. >On emcee.com, Michael set up the directory /usr/local/etc/lifelines for >me to put lines stuff in. I have lines302 and a subdir ... Thanks for this info. Michael has also set up an ftp directory for LifeLines in /pub/genealogy/software/lifelines I will gradually over the next week or so establish the "home" LifeLines FTP site there (Stephen Wood will then mirror the lines site on ftp.cac.psu.edu from there). The old FTP site has a lot of old stuff in it now, and this will provide a good time to clean up the LifeLines ftp access. In terms of the /usr/local/etc/lifelines area, I would also like to get 3.0.3 and Gengine in there in an experimental version. They both work quite well, though there are known problems with both that I am still looking for time to work on. (For LL 3.0.3 I completely rewrote the programming subsystem to have run-time type checking. The language itself did not change, but the subsystem now keeps close track on the type of all values, and generates quite nice "compile" time and run time error messages when you break the rules. Makes writing and debugging LifeLines programs much, much easier.) As an experiment I brought 3.0.2 over last night and built it, just to see what the build environment is like. Worked fine though I think I got three compile warnings that I'll track down. I built for the BSD target; how did you build? I don't like the way LL looks on BSD since the pop up windows have no sides (I did that on purpose, though I regret it). >Tom, give me gengine and I'll start building an HTML based front end that >can be used with any browser. I've thought about it a lot. Basically, you >would have a bunch of small simple programs that would be driven by CGI, and >each time the current UI gives you a menu or new screen, one of these programs >would be returning a new HTML page to your browser. When 3.0.3 comes over, so does Gengine, so you'll have it to play around with to your heart's content. Gengine had slipped my mind when I had said that I wouldn't be putting another user interface on LifeLines. All Gengine is is LifeLines with another, minimal user inerface. >The only bad part I forsee is dynamic screens, such as when loading a GEDCOM >and such, where HTML doesn't map well to continually updating the screen. Also >running reports could get a bit problematical, but I think something can be >worked out. At any rate, any usage that involves just browsing through a data- >base and interacting with menus should map well into HTML. I am of mixed mind here. In a fairly real sense, Gengine is a first approximation to a HotJava-type vision of genealogy. If you view LifeLines programs as Gengine applets, and you send that applet to a site with a LifeLines database that you want to query, then you have a very Java-like view. In the past I had assumed that a Gengine site would use pre-canned and site specific LifeLines programs that the user would select somehow. If the user wanted to run some other program on that distant LifeLines site, and that site did not have that program, he would be out of luck. I much prefer this more modern view of passing Gengine "applets" so the user can run any program of their choice on the other system. Sounds like you may be thinking along the same lines. Maybe a good strategy would be to think of Gengine as this proto-applet-based system, experiment with the notion by finding ways to send a Gengine database scripts over the Net, try out a few neat programs, see what happens. After some experimentation like this, I think the proper course would be to make a more formally structured proposal to the genealogical computing community for a "gtp" (genealogical transport protocol!) and set of Java classes, set of proposed database formats and set of proposed applets. Of course, if there were a working HotJava system to demonstrate the ideas so much the better. Now there is a project worth getting excited about! A wonderful issue is going to open up soon. I had intended the 3.0.3 version of the LifeLines programming language to be able to permanently modify databases. This can be both a boon and a disaster of course. Ideas of programs that merge new data into your database, or infer and build relationships within your database are extremently exciting to me. In converting this to an applet world, one would, I believe, in some applications, allow databases to be changed by the applet. And in other cases you would not. Obviously, most people would require that their databases be treated as strictly read-only when being accessed by external users, but they might want to be able to run the modifying applets when working on them themselves. What a wonderful world lies ahead of us in these areas. Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 5 07:55:55 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA19232 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:55:54 -0800 Received: from server.iadfw.net (server.iadfw.net [204.178.72.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA11912 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:57:18 -0800 Received: from Internet (roadtrip.iadfw.net [206.66.11.254]) by server.iadfw.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id JAA16336; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 09:57:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601051557.JAA16336@server.iadfw.net> X-Sender: dwidener@mail.airmail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 09:59:19 -0500 To: Dallan Quass From: Don Widener Subject: Re: Java and data sharing Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Dallan: At 08:45 PM 1/4/96 -0800, you wrote to Tom Wetmore: >Do you think people would accept having a copy of their genealogy >stored at someone else's server? Why not? Anyone who has a genealogical web site has their data stored on someone else's server (mine is in downtown Dallas). Banner Blue has thousands of genealogies stored in connection with their World Family Tree Project. Cliff Manis has about 1,600 of them stored on his GenServ server in Seoul, Korea. After all, the more widely your data is disseminated, the better your chances of achieving a link with someone else researching the same lines. We all benefit by sharing. Regards, Don ********************************************************* * Don Widener dwidener@airmail.net * * Researching WIDENER : MARTIN : OSBORN : WEAVER * * SMITH : BAKER : WATSON : SOUTHGATE * * ...and many others * * Genealogy Web Page: http://www.airmail.net/~dwidener/ * ********************************************************* From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 5 11:04:10 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA19653 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:04:10 -0800 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04308 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:06:17 -0800 To: GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM, techgen@ninkasi.ebay.sun.com Cc: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA20060; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:03:52 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA12176; Fri, 5 Jan 96 13:02:50 EST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 13:02:50 EST From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601051802.AA12176@beltway> Original-To: GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM, att!ninkasi.ebay.sun.com!techgen Subject: One Person's View of HotGenealogy on the Web Original-Cc: att!vm1.nodak.edu!lines-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Liners, Webbers, TechGen and GenEWorld Folk, Some of you may follow the GenWeb or LifeLines lists, but for those of you who don't, here's some info that you might be inerested in. 1. LifeLines is a UNIX genealogical program that is user programmable and handles genealogical databases on a number of WWW sites. The programmable part of LL is used to generate HTML files, often on the fly by CGI scripts, as users select hyperlinks from the web pages they see on their browser screens. There are two or three other genealogical systems that have similar capabilities though they are less flexible because they are not programmable. 2. Gengine is a minimal user interface version of LifeLines that just interprets LifeLines programs. LifeLines assumes a local, interactive user, whereas Gengine simply runs a program to extract and format information from a LifeLines database. The extracted info can be an HTML file, a GEDCOM file, a postscript file, a TeX file, you name it. 3. Imagine a site running Gengine; imagine LifeLines programs being sent to that site to be run by Gengine; what you get is somthing very similar to the applet model being spearheaded by Java and HotJava. The LifeLines program is analogous to an "applet." Sending that applet to a WWW site with a LifeLines database is a primitive version of the type of "HotGenealogy" approach to genealoggy that I think we should be striving for. 4. I plan to push the Gengine idea further, probably reimplementing Gengine and much of the LifeLines infrastructure in Java, and changing the programming language for this new Java/LifeLines/Gengine to be Java itself. What today are LifeLines programs will in the future become true Java applets. If I can do this then LifeLines/Gengine becomes a true creature of the Web, and genealogists using it take a giant step toward the fuller potential of the Web. 5. I plan to do this work anyway, just for the sheer fun of learning something new. However, it would behoove the genealogical community as a whole to start thinking about establishing our own "gtp" (Genealogical Transfer Protocol) for genealogical applications on the WWW. The data part of "gtp" would obviously include formats for transmitting genealogical data. As a positive side effect, the "gtp" format would become our salvation from the throttle hold that GEDCOM has on our industry. Web savvy genealogical application would read and write data in "gtp" and would presumably support on-site proprietary databases. These Web savvy applications would accept and execute Java applets that could do essentially anything with the local data, and send it back to the remote clients. Don't get scared, but certain, blessed applets could be used to modify databases, say suturing in new lines that other applets have gleaned off the Web, or discovering and establishing new relationsships. The "gtp" protocol would be based on a collection of Java classes (presuming Java wins the battle for making the Web interactive), and transmitted (probably) in some SGML format. A whole industry of genealogy applets could be spawned. Much of the concerns over how to make the GenWeb work just fall out in such an environment. The key becomes defining the protocol format and the base Java classes that support it. Given those definitions the commercial developers could easily take off and develop customized genealogical browsers and database engines, but these systems would all work together. 6. As usual I have dimmed the potential for these ideas by trying to express them in writing. I hope enough of the potential of the ideas comes through to excite a few of you to stop and imagine for a moment. 7. For the more mercencary at heart: there is gold in them thar hills. Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shor.net From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 5 13:18:44 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19938 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:18:43 -0800 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [198.4.7.7]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09483 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:20:39 -0800 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA14975; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:20:30 -0500 Date: 05 Jan 96 16:16:43 EST From: Mickey Lane To: "'T.T.Wetmore'" , "'INTERNET:GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM'" , "'INTERNET:TECHGEN@NINKASI.EBAY.SUN.COM'" Cc: "'INTERNET:GENWEB@UCSD.EDU'" , "'INTERNET:LINES-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU'" Subject: RE: One Person's View of HotGenealogy on the Web Message-ID: (I'm replying to a Microsoft Exchange message via CompuServe to a bunch of lists I don't subscribe to so I have *no* idea what this is going to look like...) >From: T.T.Wetmore[COMPUSERVE:>INTERNET:ttw@beltway.att.com] >Sent: Friday, January 05, 1996 2:48 PM >To: INTERNET:GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM; >INTERNET:TECHGEN@NINKASI.EBAY.SUN.COM >Cc: INTERNET:LINES-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU; INTERNET:GENWEB@UCSD.EDU >Subject: One Person's View of HotGenealogy on the Web >Liners, Webbers, TechGen and GenEWorld Folk, [...] >5. I plan to do this work anyway, just for the sheer fun of learning > something new. However, it would behoove the genealogical community as > a whole to start thinking about establishing our own "gtp" (Genealogical > Transfer Protocol) for genealogical applications on the WWW. The data > part of "gtp" would obviously include formats for transmitting > genealogical data. As a positive side effect, the "gtp" format would > become our salvation from the throttle hold that GEDCOM has on our > industry. I think the most improtant factor in the design of a genealogy transfer protocol should be data size. The amount of data moving from place to place is already beginning to tax the medium and it's only going to get worse. I suggest that the "standard" be a binary structure together with the source code (C++ & Java) needed to create and decode it. Make the source code (or an API) the standard! If I may use ROOTSBOOK terms to describe it: The RBBinaryEntry class object contains everything known about an individual in a very object oriented structure. It contains some number of RBMarriage objects which contain some number of RBChild objects. Names, places and dates are all objects. Associated documents are included. All links (father, mother, kids, friends, Godparents, etc) are all RBEntry objects. I'd like to see a situation where some agent constructed the RBBinaryEntry object, compressed it and put it on the web where some other agent could decompress it and use it as it sees fit. If properly done, it may be possible to implement interfaces between GEDCOM based components, ROOTSBOOK based components and _TBD_ components all without the user ever being the wiser. (I'm thinking RPC/DCE as I write this...) The ROOTSBOOK Class Library (which implements all of the above) is almost done. I've got all the classes done and am now filling the things like date of christening, place of burial - all the stuff you skip over while you're trying to get the big stuff working. Mickey. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jan 5 21:49:34 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA20676 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:49:33 -0800 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03419 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:50:22 -0800 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA22019 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:50:19 -0800 Received: from foxtrot.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA06973 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:50:19 -0800 Received: from svpafug.rahul.net by foxtrot.rahul.net (5.67b8/jive-a2i-1.0) id AA22851; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:50:15 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:50:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199601060550.AA22851@foxtrot.rahul.net> X-Sender: svpafug@rahul.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: svpafug@rahul.net (Bill Minnick) Subject: Re: LifeLines: Speed, comfort, etc. RE: TOM WETMORE'S RESPONSE TO HERBERT STOYAN TODAY: > . . . . . . >>An important thing would be a new interface to Lifelines. The courses-thing is >>a little bild old. A PC(windows)-version would be an important thing. > >I am not proud of the LifeLines users interface. My ideas of porting >LifeLines to the Mac are prompted by my desire to give LifeLines a nice >user interface. Let me be honest, though: I have no intentions of giving >the UNIX version of LifeLines a new user interface. TOM, I call your attention to a recent survey of 1750 computer-genealogists in our Silicon Valley PAF Users Group. 481 members returned the survey. 14 percent of the respondants used Macs; 86% of respondants use Dos-based PCs (mostly 386 and 486 PCs). Based on the reality of the user base, I would urge you to outfit Lifelines with a GUI interface running under Windows 3.1, 95 and NT. Our Silicon Valley PAF Users Group plans to set up a Web site for linking, merging and publishing member genealogies via the Web. We are asking our members for a donation of money and/or equipment to cover equipment and utility costs; the development is being done by volunteers in our group. We'll be implementing Lifelines under Windows NT in the next few months and hope to use it on our Web site, and of course would prefer you focus on a Lifelines GUI useable on our GENWEB site and by the vast majority of computer genealogists. Thanks for all of your recent efforts associated with the Lifelines reports. We always look forward to your GenWeb messages detailing your various efforts and ideas. As to Java, we encourage your explorations in this area and hope to see the breakthru's we all need to let everyone easily participate in building one distributted, merged, linked, worldwide genealogy database. Regards, Bill Minnick From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jan 6 00:26:48 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA20839 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:26:48 -0800 Received: from core.apana.org.au (core.apana.org.au [203.12.236.10]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05504 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:28:37 -0800 Received: from greebo.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by core.apana.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id TAA00280 for genweb@UCSD.EDU; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 19:09:48 +1100 Received: by greebo.apana.org.au (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Fri, 05 Jan 96 20:40:06 +1000 for genweb@UCSD.EDU To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: The real reason Tom's thinking about a Java port of LifeLines From: paulf@greebo.apana.org.au (Paul Foxworthy) Message-ID: <6e19gD3w165w@greebo.apana.org.au> Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 20:36:16 +1000 Organization: Coherent Software Tom wrote re his mooted LifeLines-in-Java: >Just a quick example. We could imagine an "ancestor addition" function. >This function would be started by an applet that would run on your machine, >looking at your database (LifeLines or HotLines). ^^^^^^^^ Aha! The secret's out! Tom's thought of a cute name! Now he'll just have to come up with the product to match.... Cheers Paul Paul Foxworthy ------------------------ paulf@greebo.apana.org.au I MUST SAY THESE ARE VERY GOOD BISCUITS. HOW DO THEY GET THE BITS OF CHOCOLATE IN? -- Death has a snack (Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies) From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jan 6 15:35:39 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA23756 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 15:35:38 -0800 Received: from LightHouse.com ([204.184.50.11]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14914 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 15:35:43 -0800 Received: (from tfries@localhost) by LightHouse.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA00552; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 17:19:56 -0600 Posted-Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 17:19:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199601062319.RAA00552@LightHouse.com> Subject: Re: LifeLines: Speed, comfort, etc. To: svpafug@rahul.net (Bill Minnick) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 17:19:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU In-Reply-To: <199601060550.AA22851@foxtrot.rahul.net> from "Bill Minnick" at Jan 5, 96 09:50:15 pm From: tfries@umr.edu (Todd Fries) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1165 > >I am not proud of the LifeLines users interface. My ideas of porting > >LifeLines to the Mac are prompted by my desire to give LifeLines a nice > >user interface. Let me be honest, though: I have no intentions of giving > >the UNIX version of LifeLines a new user interface. > TOM, > > I call your attention to a recent survey of 1750 computer-genealogists in > our Silicon Valley PAF Users Group. 481 members returned the survey. 14 > percent of the respondants used Macs; 86% of respondants use Dos-based PCs > (mostly 386 and 486 PCs). > > Based on the reality of the user base, I would urge you to outfit Lifelines > with a GUI interface running under Windows 3.1, 95 and NT. I think you miss the point of java. If Lifelines is ported to java, then any user with a 'java aware' browser, in theory, should be able to run the 'java-ized' version of Lifelines. Therefore, you are getting what you want when Tom ports LifeLines to java. That is assuming, however, that someone ports java to win3.1, but since netscape already supports java, well, looks like this base is covered as well.. -- Todd Fries...tfries@umr.edu http://www.cs.umr.edu/~tfries From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jan 6 16:10:25 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA23901 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 16:10:25 -0800 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA05436 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 16:08:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199601070008.QAA05436@UCSD.EDU> Received: from ppp01p17.ucc.uconn.edu by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Sat, 06 Jan 96 19:07:55 EST Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "George Waller" Organization: University of Connecticut To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 19:09:28 -0500 Subject: Re: LifeLines: Speed, comfort, etc. Reply-to: gwaller@lib.uconn.edu Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) On 6 Jan 96 at 17:19, Todd Fries wrote: > > I think you miss the point of java. If Lifelines is ported to java, then > any user with a 'java aware' browser, in theory, should be able to run > the 'java-ized' version of Lifelines. > Todd, Java has been *the* buzz word only since early December... could you give us a brief description of what Java is all about? Thanks, George. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jan 6 19:46:57 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA24331 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 19:46:57 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA08149 for ; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 19:47:37 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA20836; Sat, 6 Jan 96 22:45:46 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA09122; Sat, 6 Jan 96 22:47:40 EST Date: Sat, 6 Jan 96 22:47:40 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601070347.AA09122@beltway> To: GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM, genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: LifeLines and Java Intro Todd (>), >...If Lifelines is ported to java, then any user with a 'java aware' >browser, in theory, should be able to run the 'java-ized' version of >Lifelines. Therefore, you are getting what you want when Tom ports >LifeLines to java. Thanks, Todd, for making this clear. Yes this a major reason for porting LifeLines to Java. LifeLines (theoretically at least) then becomes processor and operating system independent. "HotLines" then runs everywhere, and report generating or other genealogy applets can be shipped anywhere on the net for execution. Here's a very quick introduction to Java. 1. Java is an OO language which might be called C++ done right. Java compilers compile into a virtual machine code. Each processor and system combination needs a virtal machine engine which actually runs the Java program. For performance critical code, translation can go all the way to native machine code. 2. Java is a large standard library of classes that are assumed to be in existance on any machine running Java. Of course, if the needed classes aren't there yet, the Java system just gets them off the net. When a developer writes Java applications she programs in a world that is already populated with this large set of classes, and extends them for her own needs. You can imagine some major benefits of this approach. 3. Java is an approach to running software in a distributed fashion over the net. In a Web application using Java, both data and/or Java programs that process data are shipped over the net to your machine, where the Java program is executed on the data that was already on your machine or shipped into your machine. Programs that arrive on your machine for execution by the local Java system are called applets. It is this sending of programs (in source form) to other places for remote execution that is the big attraction of Java. In the past such an approach was almost unthinkable. What would you do? Ship C code around? Come on. But with Java that's really what's happening. But you ship Java code into a highly structured environment that already has a large class library, an environment in which dynamic or "lazy" linking and loading is the norm, and an environment in which code interpretation is fast because of the virtual machine approach. All over the world tonight, software developers are moaning "why didn't I think of that first?" It is an unbeatable approach. Instead of just shipping nouns over the net, we now send nouns and verbs. Think about it. 4. You've probably heard of HotJava also. HotJava is Sun's (the inventor of Java) name for their own Java browser system. Other browsers, namely Netscape 2.0, will also be Java aware systems. Now you may have a better picture as to why Java and HotJava are the hottest buzzwords going these days. At work we have bets on when the Java books will start outnumbering the C++ books at our local book stores! And since I try to keep LifeLines the genealogical system at the leading edge of technology, you can see why I'm interested in it. Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 05:05:04 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA26704 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 05:05:02 -0800 Received: from arachnet.algroup.co.uk (arachnet.algroup.co.uk [194.128.162.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA14689 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 04:40:26 -0800 Received: from heap.ben.algroup.co.uk by arachnet.algroup.co.uk id aa07821; 7 Jan 96 12:35 GMT Received: from gonzo.ben.algroup.co.uk by heap.ben.algroup.co.uk id aa16399; 7 Jan 96 12:13 GMT Subject: Re: One Person's View of HotGenealogy on the Web To: Mickey Lane Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 12:15:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Ben Laurie Cc: ttw@beltway.att.com, GEN-EWORLD@mail.eworld.com, TECHGEN@ninkasi.ebay.sun.com, GENWEB@UCSD.EDU, LINES-L@vm1.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: from "Mickey Lane" at Jan 5, 96 04:16:43 pm Reply-To: ben@algroup.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3791 Message-ID: <9601071215.aa14083@gonzo.ben.algroup.co.uk> > > (I'm replying to a Microsoft Exchange message via CompuServe to a bunch of lists > I don't subscribe to so I have *no* idea what this is going to look like...) > > >From: T.T.Wetmore[COMPUSERVE:>INTERNET:ttw@beltway.att.com] > >Sent: Friday, January 05, 1996 2:48 PM > >To: INTERNET:GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM; > >INTERNET:TECHGEN@NINKASI.EBAY.SUN.COM > >Cc: INTERNET:LINES-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU; INTERNET:GENWEB@UCSD.EDU > >Subject: One Person's View of HotGenealogy on the Web > > >Liners, Webbers, TechGen and GenEWorld Folk, > > [...] > > >5. I plan to do this work anyway, just for the sheer fun of learning > > something new. However, it would behoove the genealogical community as > > a whole to start thinking about establishing our own "gtp" (Genealogical > > Transfer Protocol) for genealogical applications on the WWW. The data > > part of "gtp" would obviously include formats for transmitting > > genealogical data. As a positive side effect, the "gtp" format would > > become our salvation from the throttle hold that GEDCOM has on our > > industry. > > I think the most improtant factor in the design of a genealogy transfer protocol > should be data size. The amount of data moving from place to place is already > beginning to tax the medium and it's only going to get worse. I suggest that the > > "standard" be a binary structure together with the source code (C++ & Java) > needed to create and decode it. Make the source code (or an API) the > standard! I should draw your attention to HTTP-NG, the proposed solution to the same problems for HTTP 1.0. It uses ASN.1 to define the messages, and PER (Packed Encoding Rules) to transmit them. It also multiplexes multiple requests onto a single connection, very important for good response times from distant sites. The multiplexing protocol is intended to be independent of the enclosed protocol, so could be reused for GTP. Obviously the message format is closely related to the subject matter, so GTP would need new messages. The advantage of following this course is that the tools to do the ASN.1/PER should become widely available if HTTP-NG takes off (which seems likely). Also, so long as one doesn't go mad, hand-coding from ASN.1 is not that hard. Even if HTTP-NG doesn't make it, ASN.1 is being used in an increasing number of protocols, for example, SNMP and X.509. Cheers, Ben. > > If I may use ROOTSBOOK terms to describe it: > > The RBBinaryEntry class object contains everything known about an individual > in a very object oriented structure. It contains some number of RBMarriage > objects which contain some number of RBChild objects. Names, places > and dates are all objects. Associated documents are included. All links (father, > mother, kids, friends, Godparents, etc) are all RBEntry objects. > > I'd like to see a situation where some agent constructed the RBBinaryEntry > object, compressed it and put it on the web where some other agent could > decompress it and use it as it sees fit. > > If properly done, it may be possible to implement interfaces between GEDCOM > based components, ROOTSBOOK based components and _TBD_ components > all without the user ever being the wiser. (I'm thinking RPC/DCE as I write > this...) > > The ROOTSBOOK Class Library (which implements all of the above) is almost > done. I've got all the classes done and am now filling the things like date of > christening, place of burial - all the stuff you skip over while you're trying > to get > the big stuff working. > > Mickey. > > -- Ben Laurie Phone: +44 (181) 994 6435 Freelance Consultant Fax: +44 (181) 994 6472 and Technical Director Email: ben@algroup.co.uk A.L. Digital Ltd, URL: http://www.algroup.co.uk London, England. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 10:32:12 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA27037 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 10:32:11 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA19436 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 10:32:13 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) To: GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM, lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, genweb@UCSD.EDU Cc: gedcom-l@vm1.nodak.edu Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA21593; Sun, 7 Jan 96 13:29:07 EST Received: by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA01575; Sun, 7 Jan 96 13:31:01 EST Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 13:31:01 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601071831.AA01575@beltway> Original-To: GEN-EWORLD@MAIL.EWORLD.COM, att!vm1.nodak.edu!lines-l, genweb@ucsd.edu Subject: HotGenealogy and Flow of Applets Original-Cc: att!vm1.nodak.edu!gedcom-l Todd (>): >Ok. I like the potential of the 'gtp' protocol...but let me play devil's >advocate with you for a second about the way you plan to use java. Glad you are asking these questions, because if we can't find answers, we may be fooling ourselves. >When I was first introduced to java, I was told it was a great extension >to the web because it removed alot of the processing from the server and >focused it on the client end. Doesn't this apply to what you are >speaking of? I find it hard to believe that one would 'send' java to a >remote site for processing, wait, and then get in return the resulting >report. How about an example to use as we go through this? Here's one. Say the remote system has a database with lots of lineage-linked data. Say it provides a service. You somehow send it a request (let's talk about how that request that you send looks later) to get data that you think may involve people related to you. Okay. The remote system sends you that data. But, it also sends you some applets that present that data to you in a nice format, allowing you to browse through the data. Those applets may also know how to add data that you decide does apply to you into your local database, or how to go back to the remote database and get more info for you. I think this service fits with your idea of a client/server, where the work is being done on the client. But, what does the server do in preparing the data to send to you? Today it would run a built-in operation of the program running on the server, and the user on the client would have to know how to construct a request to ship to the server to ask for the operation to be run. But what if the server program were a bit more general, and it provided an interface that could be accessed by applets sent in from the clients? Of course those applets would have to be written to the API provided by the server program, but you end up with a world in which clients send applets to servers in order to encode the exact service the client wants, and the server is also sending applets to the the clients so the clients can process the data provided by the server. In my opinion, the sending of applets need not be a one way street from servers to clients. Data and applets can flow in both directions. I beleive that by coming up with a GTP and a class API to a package of genealogy Java classes that we can take a big step toward this vision. A big part of what is going to make Java work is the common run time libraries that are assumed to exist wherever Java runs. These run time libraries are constructed into packages, where each package is a set of related Java classes and objects. Packages exist in many areas already. The packages represent the world that exists on a processing machine, and a tremendous value of Java is getting everybody everywhere to agree on the same set of packages. (There is no magic in Java -- if there is no agreement and cooperation among vendors, it won't work). Quick example, there are network packages that give common access to URL and Internet protocols. There are packages that provide an "Abstract Windowing Toolkit" that provides a system independent graphical user interface. There are packages that provide multi-processing through threads that are independent (at the Jave level) of any underlying operating system. My assumption is that we genealogists would want to create a Java genealogy package of classes that all HotGenealogy applications would use. Note that this is MUCH MORE than just desiging a genealogy data interchange format. It is designing a package of classes and objects to represent that data in running genealogical application programs. A big question is who or what is going to step up to the plate to undertake this job. In my highly biased opinion I hope the LDS stays completely clear for at least two years, and I hope GENTECH, possibly under the auspices of some respected genalogical organizations, takes the lead. This is a tall order. We can't even get GEDCOM into shape, and we may be talking about a job that is much more difficult. >Maybe I'm missing something here....but it seems to me that it would be >less 'work' on the servers, and allow more 'data manipulation' if one would >simply 'grab' people and/or info from the remote 'gtp' database server, and >then generate the reports on one's local machine, one could have a >collection of 'reports' which are all applets, cached locally. When a >remote server/service/lines page has a better/new 'report format' or we >write our own, we can run it on our own data, which should include data we >have gleaned from the net. In general I agree with you. Most obvious applications of genealogy applets seem to be applets that you import to help you process your own data. I just see possibilities in the upstream flow of applets as well. Note that the downstream flow is politically easier in the sense that each HotGenealogy system could implement its own API, and provide an industry of applets that apply just to its API. The upstream flow puts more pressure on HotGenealogy developers to provide a common API, so that everybody's systems should respond to the same applets. >Maybe I'm wrong. But I just think that the servers should serve and the >clients should process. Isn't that what Java is all about? Yes. But remember that the servers do process also, and what they process are requests from the clients, if only to ship data and applets to the clients so they can do the real processing. But I see nothing strange about those requests that come from the client to the server, that start it all off, being applets instead of some proprietary command. Thanks for keeping the converstaion going. Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 13:02:21 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA27282 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:20 -0800 Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.1.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23234 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:04:51 -0800 Received: from irpsbbs.ucsd.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id NAA28956 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:04:49 -0800 for Received: from IRPS BBS (2400014) by irpsbbs.ucsd.edu (PostalUnion/SMTP 1.2) id AA2400014.994000; Sun, 07 Jan 1996 13:06:56 PDT Message-ID: <1996Jan07.130519.994000@irpsbbs.ucsd.edu> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 13:05:19 PDT Subject: You are tuned to GenWeb-Do not reply Whoever receives this message is one of 550 people subscribed to the e-mail mailing list GENWEB. The purpose of this list is to facilitate the development of a linked, worldwide distributed genealogy database. If this topic is not of interest to you ... here is how to unsubscribe: Send an e-mail message to listserv@ucsd.edu In the body of the message put the words: UNSUB GENWEB Do not reply to this message. Do not send these commands to genweb@ucsd.edu. Do not send me a message about unsubscribing. Just do it as outlined above. If you still want to read about the GenWeb, please point your WWW browser to the URL http://demo.genweb.org/genweblist/genweblist.html All current and archived messages are there for your perusal without cluttering your mailbox. Thanks, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computing Services Manager e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-7733* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-5727* *************************************************************************** From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 13:20:24 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA27329 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:20:24 -0800 Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.1.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA23865 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:22:59 -0800 Received: from irpsbbs.ucsd.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id NAA01262 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:22:57 -0800 for Received: from IRPS BBS (2400014) by irpsbbs.ucsd.edu (PostalUnion/SMTP 1.2) id AA2400014.994010; Sun, 07 Jan 1996 13:25:03 PDT Message-ID: <1996Jan07.132323.994010@irpsbbs.ucsd.edu> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 13:23:23 PDT Subject: Java User Interface Tom, Todd Fries answered Bill Minnick's request to you for a DOS/Windows interface on LifeLines instead of a Mac interface. If LifeLines is implemented in Java, then a Java-aware browser defines the user interface. And Bill may soon have a large choice of browsers for Windows that grok Java just as we have great browsers for the Mac and X-Windows workstations. So, Bill, what you can't have is a graphical user interface for plain DOS users. That is a contradiction in terms. Cheers, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computing Services Manager e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-7733* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-5727* *************************************************************************** From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 15:46:51 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA27613 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:46:50 -0800 Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.1.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA27969 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:48:56 -0800 Received: from irpsbbs.ucsd.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id PAA18148 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:48:53 -0800 for Received: from IRPS BBS (2400014) by irpsbbs.ucsd.edu (PostalUnion/SMTP 1.2) id AA2400014.994103; Sun, 07 Jan 1996 15:51:00 PDT Message-ID: <1996Jan07.154700.994103@irpsbbs.ucsd.edu> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 15:47:00 PDT Subject: Fwd: SDSCwire news flash: January 5, 1996 To GenWebbers: This came across my screen and I wonder if we can make use of high bandwidth connections for genealogy. Anyone want to link their GenWeb servers via an ATM link? Gary --------------------- Seeking Research Projects that Require High-bandwidth Networking to Support International Collaborations The U.S. government, as a participant in the G-7 Global Information Society Initiative (on the World Wide Web, see http://info.ic.gc.ca/G7 for additional information) seeks to identify U.S. projects that wish to participate in high performance computing and communications applications that would require high performance international communications links with North American neighbors and abroad. Such networks would be used to support collaborations between U.S. researchers and their colleagues in Canada, France, the U.K., Germany, Italy, and Japan (the other countries besides the U.S. in the so-called "G-7") Steve Goldstein at NSF is the U.S. coordinator for the "Global Interoperability of Broadband Networks" (GIBN) theme of the G-7 GIS initiative, assisted by Charlie Catlett, NCSA, and Tom DeFanti and Maxine Brown, Electronic Visualization Laboratory. A meeting will be held in Paris January 23-24, 1996 at which a preliminary list of such projects will be presented. The Japanese have identified 23 projects, many of which have U.S. collaborations. But it is important for the U.S. and Canada to also be well represented. The projects should focus on HPCC applications with high-speed international collaboration components and will underscore the need for more international high-bandwidth networks. This initiative has the support of President Clinton who pledged to help achieve the Global Information Infrastructure during recent talks in Helsinki. Therefore, we ask you to identify projects and international collaborators who would make use of these networks by e-mail NO LATER THAN JANUARY 10 to g7@ncsa.uiuc.edu. This is the information that is needed: (Note: This format was originated by the Japanese who head the Applications Working Group of the GIBN project.) 1. Name and address of participant e.g., Communications Research Laboratory Koganei-City, Tokyo, Japan 2. Application experiment site e.g., Koganei-City, Tokyo, Japan 3. Name of foreign partner e.g., Communication Research Center, Canada 4. Main feature of application e.g., Video transmission 5. Brief description of application e.g., Experiment with various video-compression methods, including MPEG-2 through ATM. Video includes high-definition TV. 6-1. Domestic high-speed network to be connected to application sites e.g., Testbed for joint utilization tests of multimedia communications 6-2. Availability of access lines e.g., Established by the end of March 1996 7. Required network interface by experiment e.g., ATM (native ATM) 8. Required speed by experiment e.g., 45 Mbit/s 9. Expected duration of experiment e.g., April 1996 - December 1997 10. Contact point of each country for coordination of application experiments e.g., name, address, telephone, fax, e-mail Those who have filled out the user-friendly NLANR/vBNS applications will already have developed most of this information, though for domestic collaborations. Please also include a SHORT paragraph introducing your application ("this is a simulation of galaxies colliding..."). If you do not have international collaborators identified, please include a phrase to the effect that "international collaborations will be sought." NSF has no new program for this. Grant supplements up to 10% of the original amount of a grant can be requested, though these should be coordinated with the cognizant NSF program officer first. The carriers have responded quite well. AT&T has donated 45 Mbps to Japan, with a promised upgrade to 155 Mbps after three months (total duration promised is nine months). Sprint, France Telecom, Deutsche Telekom, and Teleglobe Canada have promised a Canada/U.S./France/Germany "rectangle" with at least one 155 Mbps cross-Atlantic link (the U.S.-France link will be 155 or 45 Mbps). The federal government still has to work out two aspects of the architecture in the U.S.: (1) how to continue the work of SC'95 and connect domestic nets and (2) how to make the international connections under the policy constraints placed on the use of the domestic U.S. nets. This appears to be a good opportunity to figure out how to internetwork existing "islands" of broadband connectivity in the U.S. The OC-3 bandwidth to Japan, Canada, and Europe will not do a lot of good unless some mechanism can be implemented to interconnect broadband networks across the nation. For more information, please contact: Charlie Catlett, NCSA catlett@ncsa.uiuc.edu Tom DeFanti, EVL tom@evl.eecs.uic.edu Maxine Brown, EVL maxine@eecs.uic.edu Copyright 1995 SDSCwire. *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computing Services Manager e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-7733* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-5727* *************************************************************************** From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 21:57:14 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA28202 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:57:13 -0800 Received: from dragon.ti.com (dragon.ti.com [192.94.94.61]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA08179 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:59:17 -0800 Received: from dad_sun ([156.117.138.45]) by dragon.ti.com (8.6.12/) with ESMTP id XAA20215 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:59:19 -0600 Received: from 192.228.78.72 (pppsb8.itg.ti.com [192.228.78.72]) by dad_sun (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA06827 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:56:59 -0600 To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: mbr@dadd.ti.com (Martin Roberts) Subject: Re: LifeLines and Java Intro Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:28:42 Message-ID: In article ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) writes: Tom, thanks for the Java introduction. Please clarify one point for the PC users: When java sends something to our machines, how do we avoid viruses? The way you described it, it sounds like virus distributors heaven. Martin >Here's a very quick introduction to Java. >1. Java is an OO language which might be called C++ done right. Java > compilers compile into a virtual machine code. Each processor and > system combination needs a virtal machine engine which actually runs the > Java program. For performance critical code, translation can go all the > way to native machine code. >2. Java is a large standard library of classes that are assumed to be in > existance on any machine running Java. Of course, if the needed classes > aren't there yet, the Java system just gets them off the net. When a > developer writes Java applications she programs in a world that is > already populated with this large set of classes, and extends them for > her own needs. You can imagine some major benefits of this approach. >3. Java is an approach to running software in a distributed fashion over > the net. In a Web application using Java, both data and/or Java programs > that process data are shipped over the net to your machine, where the > Java program is executed on the data that was already on your machine or > shipped into your machine. Programs that arrive on your machine for > execution by the local Java system are called applets. It is this > sending of programs (in source form) to other places for remote execution > that is the big attraction of Java. In the past such an approach was > almost unthinkable. What would you do? Ship C code around? Come on. > But with Java that's really what's happening. But you ship Java code > into a highly structured environment that already has a large class > library, an environment in which dynamic or "lazy" linking and loading > is the norm, and an environment in which code interpretation is fast > because of the virtual machine approach. All over the world tonight, > software developers are moaning "why didn't I think of that first?" It > is an unbeatable approach. Instead of just shipping nouns over the net, > we now send nouns and verbs. Think about it. >4. You've probably heard of HotJava also. HotJava is Sun's (the inventor > of Java) name for their own Java browser system. Other browsers, namely > Netscape 2.0, will also be Java aware systems. >Now you may have a better picture as to why Java and HotJava are the >hottest buzzwords going these days. At work we have bets on when the Java >books will start outnumbering the C++ books at our local book stores! >And since I try to keep LifeLines the genealogical system at the leading >edge of technology, you can see why I'm interested in it. >Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jan 7 22:02:35 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA28215 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:02:34 -0800 Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.1.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA08404 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:05:21 -0800 Received: from irpsbbs.ucsd.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id WAA01391 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:05:19 -0800 for Received: from IRPS BBS (2400014) by irpsbbs.ucsd.edu (PostalUnion/SMTP 1.2) id AA2400014.994382; Sun, 07 Jan 1996 22:07:27 PDT Message-ID: <1996Jan07.220113.994382@irpsbbs.ucsd.edu> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 22:01:13 PDT Subject: Re: Suggestion to move genweb to mail.eWorld.com Alf Christophersen suggested that we move this list to a server where we can more closely control who gets on the list and where we can blacklist posters who annoy us with irrelevant postings. Alf, I am annoyed by these messages that have nothing to do with our main topic, but I am not ready to be the gatekeeper for the mailing list. We have over 550 subscribers and I believe the signal-to-noise ratio in this channel is fairly high. There will always be mis-postings and annoying messages, especially as less computer-literate people come into the Internet. I think we all can tolerate some small level of annoyance in our mailing lists. Having said that, I am investigating other servers to host this list. I hope by the end of the month to have some news for us all. Meanwhile, Happy New Year to all Norwegians, wherever you live. Cheers, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computing Services Manager e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-7733* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-5727* *************************************************************************** From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 8 03:30:56 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA00413 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 03:30:55 -0800 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA18740 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 03:24:26 -0800 Received: from mtgbcs.mt.att.com (mtgzfs3-bgate.mt.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA11579; Mon, 8 Jan 96 06:19:43 EST Received: from mthost2 by mtgbcs.mt.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.2 sol2) id AA24473; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 06:23:45 -0500 Received: by mthost2 (5.0/EMS-1.0.2 subsidiary.cf 12/10/93 (SMI-4.1/SVR4)) id AA12827; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 06:23:35 +0500 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 06:23:35 +0500 Message-Id: <9601081123.AA12827@mthost2> From: tsterkel@mtgbcs.mt.att.com (Terrance E Sterkel) To: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman), genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Suggestion to move genweb to mail.eWorld.com Content-Type: text I agree with Hoffman. Unless someone is willing to take this up as a more or less full time activity, I have to be fore keeping it as it is. I am a "lurker" but attempt to follow the discussions. Yep the irrelevant, obnoxious, and wrong-headed are a nuisance, but they are quite minor given the total affect. Compared to the norm, GENWeb maillist is in great shape. (we probably bore the obnoxious to tears ;} best wishes, terry P.S. what would you put in the kill list? even the "aol.com" folks eventually became intelligent :-) Remember when they gleefully jumped on the net enmass? From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 8 07:34:33 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA00594 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 07:34:32 -0800 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA24193; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 07:35:08 -0800 From: Zimri@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA20187; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:35:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:35:08 -0500 Message-ID: <960108103507_85880271@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU, genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Suggestion to move genweb to mail.eWorld.com I agree with Gary and Alf that there is some unwanted noise on this channel, can be/is frustrating, and that it is appropriate to consider ways to decrease it. However, for someone to set themselves up as a gatekeeper can be a real pain in the neck for them, and can lead to other problems. I am not in favor of moving the list to another server to facilitate blackballing. Thankfully this discussion group has not attracted people who maliciously interupt or flame. Instead, we appear to have messages that are simply mis-poasted, either through accident, or more likely, ignorance. I see the primary need as one of education. The message from Gary Hoffman "You are tuned to Gen Web-Do not reply" was excelent, and perhaps something like that could be posted once a week. Already knowing its content, we wouldn't have to read the message each week, so it wouldn't have to be a problem for people who regularly use the list. However, if we want at some point to get off this list, or find another list more approprate to a question we have, we would always have this information at hand. But for someone relatively new to the net, or to this list, it would be a nice little piece of helpful and educational content. The letter might regularly include 1) purpose of this group; 2) how to sign off; 3) how to recieve this group in archived format; 3) other related groups and how to subscribe to them; etc. One key, however, is to keep the message length short so people will actually read it and find it helpful. I feel that an approach like this would be a much more helpful solution than either cutting groups of people out of the list, or having to have a person pre-approve messages before posting. >>>Zim From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 8 14:07:20 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01192 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:07:20 -0800 Received: from abernathy.tenet.edu (Kay-Abernathy.tenet.edu [198.213.2.7]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23716; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:07:38 -0800 Received: (from sseibert@localhost) by abernathy.tenet.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id QAA13891; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:07:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:07:33 -0600 (CST) From: Johnette Sue Seibert To: Gary Hoffman cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Suggestion to move genweb to mail.eWorld.com In-Reply-To: <1996Jan07.220113.994382@irpsbbs.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I know that I was one of the many who made a mis-posting, but for this list to be effective I really we can remind each other without flaming to be careful which button we punch. I am on three other genealogical lists, and this one is the only on which seems to have this large a problem. I am not aware of the ownership of the list, but adding a digest subscription might be one way to assist. =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ + Johnette Sue Ficke Seibert "It is worthwhile for anyone = = sseibert@tenet.edu to have behind him a few generations + + P.O. Box 61, Mineral Wells TX 76068 of honest, hardworking ancestry." = = voice/FAX: 1-817-328-1028 --Marquand + + = = genealogy: FICKE, BOWDEN, ROUTH, CAIN, MCBEE, NOWLIN, MCANALLY + + Scouting, Anglo-Catholicism, bonsai, birding, writing, beading = =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jan 8 19:32:04 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01643 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:32:03 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA16022 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:34:01 -0800 Received: from ip-bend1-15.teleport.com (ip-bend1-29.teleport.com [206.163.116.61]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14436 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:33:56 -0800 Received: by ip-bend1-15.teleport.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BADE00.E100C400@ip-bend1-15.teleport.com>; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:38:26 -0800 Message-ID: <01BADE00.E100C400@ip-bend1-15.teleport.com> From: Jeff Murphy To: "'genweb@ucsd.edu'" Subject: Linking genweb databases Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:19:45 -0800 Encoding: 23 TEXT I've run into a problem that I believe needs to be addressed, and hope you developers will give it some consideration. Today I received a gedcom file to import into my database. The creator (I anticipate) will be putting up the database on the Internet shortly. Consequently, it would be a duplication of effort for me to copy the gedcom into my database and product another gedcom for Scott McGee, who is currently storing my database online. What I would like to be able to do is include connectors in my notes which would point the user to the next database. But if the databases are stored on two different machines.... If we create a particular label in the notes, can we automatically generate a link to that address? And what happens when the link no longer is valid? The alternative, though, just means that the data is stored in multiple places. While redundancy is a wonderful thing, it may be too much of a good thing. [that's a joke] Jeff Murphy Redmond, Oregon jmurphy@teleport.com see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 02:12:46 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA03945 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:12:46 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA25788 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:15:07 -0800 Received: from ip-bend1-02.teleport.com (ip-bend1-02.teleport.com [206.163.116.34]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA10845; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:15:02 -0800 Received: by ip-bend1-02.teleport.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BADE39.03DFA300@ip-bend1-02.teleport.com>; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:20:16 -0800 Message-ID: <01BADE39.03DFA300@ip-bend1-02.teleport.com> From: Jeff Murphy To: "'Scott McGee'" Cc: "'GenWeb mailing list'" Subject: RE: Linking genweb databases Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:17:36 -0800 Encoding: 58 TEXT I wish I had a better way of implementing such links, but it is fairly easy for me now. I just have to add a special GEDCOM tag structure to the file for that person. Actually, such a link could potentially be added for families and sources, but I haven't implemented that yet. I knew you had manually installed some links to my data, but was making the suggestion so that manual installation might be bypassed - especially in the case of something like Lifelines, where the html is dynamically generated. Because no software I know of currently addresses this issue at all (PAF, FTM, etc.), it seemed to me that the best place to put such things would be to embed them in the notes for the individual. Then something like Lifeline could pull them out at the time the html was generated - same goes for ged2html, and provide the user with a link to the other database. My thinking was that since storage is at a premium on the net, this would eliminate a lot of redundancy. If, for example, everyone that tied into the Royal Lines could point to them with a link rather than incorporate the database, that should save considerable space all around the net. Moreover, it would be in keeping with the view of the Internet as a master computer, with files at various sites, but tied together by links. The only difference I'm really suggesting is that the connections be done differently than they are now. The only reason I can think of to incorporate someone else's data is if there is a discrepancy in information or notes. Were the LDS Ancestral Files available online, many of us could just point to that data as a source of information - even though I might amend that because of the number of errors and discrepancies in that data make it unsatisfactory as much beyond a starting point. But overall it would save massive amounts of disk space. By adding such a link in the notes (I propose the term LINK:), the next logical step would be to get it added to gedcom specifications. But by including it in the notes, such a step would not be required, as the data would be passed as notes. Scanning column 1 for LINK: (or possibly !LINK: in the case of PAF) seems to me to be a fairly straightforward computer application. To get to an individual, the following example would work to your system. It would be no problem at all to generate the html to include that link on the page. LINK:http://genealogy.org/~smcgee/cgi-bin/genweb.cgi/DB=jmurphy/INDEX=I1 /?PedigreeInternal Sorry for going on for so long. Maybe it has all been considered before. It just seems to me to be a simple solution to a complex problem, and bypasses manual intervention. Again, the only further problem I see is how to maintain the links as people change providers. Were we to get to the point of being able to implement the massive genealogical computer envisioned by others... but that's another problem entirely. I now relapse into my normal state of apathy. :-) Jeff Murphy Redmond, Oregon jmurphy@teleport.com see my home page for genealogy in Muhlenberg Co., Kentucky http://www.teleport.com/~jmurphy/ From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 06:35:39 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04136 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 06:35:39 -0800 Received: from formby.tenet.edu (Paula-Formby.tenet.edu [198.213.2.2]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA29570 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 06:34:13 -0800 From: djfluth@tenet.edu Received: from [198.213.26.65] ([198.213.26.65]) by formby.tenet.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA13207; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:33:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:47:39 -0600 To: Johnette Sue Seibert Subject: Re: Suggestion to move genweb to mail.eWorld.com Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Are we talking about eWorld - the Apple eMail service that charges by the minute for access time? How could schools with free access to the internet access eWorld for free? John From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 08:45:27 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA04311 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:45:26 -0800 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA16886 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:39:06 -0800 From: ttw@beltway.att.com (T.T.Wetmore) Received: from beltway (beltway.mv.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA17922; Tue, 9 Jan 96 11:24:19 EST Received: from grebe.beltway by beltway (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA03640; Tue, 9 Jan 96 11:26:15 EST Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 11:26:15 EST Original-From: beltway!ttw (T.T.Wetmore) Message-Id: <9601091626.AA03640@beltway> To: jmurphy@tleport.com Subject: Linking Databases Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Jeff Murphy writes about linking the same persons in different databases. A few comments. As Jeff points out we obviously have to place the links in the records in our databases. I'd opt for something like a new tag, maybe LURL (for link URL) but it's not a big deal. Only difference with Jeff is that I would not embed it in notes. A big issue becomes whether the link value should be "absolute," that is a completely resolved URL, or whether it can be symbolic. I'd opt for symbolic in order to handle changes in servers, databases coming and going and so on. I would use a symbolic name for each database that I linked my own data to, and then I would maintain a single record which kept the maps between the symbolic database names and the complete URLs. Since I use LifeLines I would simply add a new record to my database to hold this map, and when I generated HTML files from the database I would resolve symbolic names into absolute names by reading in this mapping record. But how do we do this big time, not just me maintaining my own personal databases and their connections to other databases? Easy to describe how, I think; harder to implement. I would say that we need a central registry for databases, and we need an agreed upon method to refer to records within databases. All part of the GTP stuff we are beginning to talk about. Jeff worries about space and duplication on the net. I don't. And I don't agree that in general people will be willing to point their ancestors off to other peoples' databases, saying, in a sense, "you can pick up more of my line over there." I'd defintely want all my own ancestors in my own personal database, and I think most other genealogists are just as picky. Sure, I'd stick links to other persons, but those links would mean, "go look there and see what Joe thinks about this line, but use what's really here in this database if you really want to know the truth." Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jan 9 14:03:31 1996 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04793 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 14:03:26 -0800 Received: from arachnet.algroup.co.uk (arachnet.algroup.co.uk [194.128.162.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA18360 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:56:16 -0800 Received: from heap.ben.algroup.co.uk by arachnet.algroup.co.uk id aa14219; 9 Jan 96 21:56 GMT Received: from gonzo.ben.algroup.co.uk by heap.ben.algroup.co.uk id aa20306; 9 Jan 96 21:33 GMT Subject: Re: Linking Databases To: "T.T.Wetmore" Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:35:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Ben Laurie Cc: jmurphy@tleport.com, genweb@UCSD.EDU In-Reply-To: <9601091626.AA03640@beltway> from "T.T.Wetmore" at Jan 9, 96 11:26:15 am Reply-To: ben@algroup.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2751 Message-ID: <9601092135.aa20759@gonzo.ben.algroup.co.uk> > > Jeff Murphy writes about linking the same persons in different databases. > A few comments. > > As Jeff points out we obviously have to place the links in the records in > our databases. I'd opt for something like a new tag, maybe LURL (for link > URL) but it's not a big deal. Only difference with Jeff is that I would > not embed it in notes. > > A big issue becomes whether the link value should be "absolute," that is a > completely resolved URL, or whether it can be symbolic. > > I'd opt for symbolic in order to handle changes in servers, databases > coming and going and so on. > > I would use a symbolic name for each database that I linked my own data to, > and then I would maintain a single record which kept the maps between the > symbolic database names and the complete URLs. Since I use LifeLines I > would simply add a new record to my database to hold this map, and when I > generated HTML files from the database I would resolve symbolic names into > absolute names by reading in this mapping record. > > But how do we do this big time, not just me maintaining my own personal > databases and their connections to other databases? > > Easy to describe how, I think; harder to implement. I would say that we > need a central registry for databases, and we need an agreed upon method > to refer to records within databases. All part of the GTP stuff we are > beginning to talk about. I've been thinking about this for some time, and it occurred to me that the cute way to do it is to have specialised Web search engines which seek out the globally unique IDs. All we have to do is mark up the ID in some easy to detect way (in the HTML), and let the robots do their stuff. As soon as one site known to the robot discovered the new location of a site, that information would be available to all. > > Jeff worries about space and duplication on the net. I don't. And I don't > agree that in general people will be willing to point their ancestors off > to other peoples' databases, saying, in a sense, "you can pick up more of > my line over there." I'd defintely want all my own ancestors in my own > personal database, and I think most other genealogists are just as picky. > Sure, I'd stick links to other persons, but those links would mean, "go > look there and see what Joe thinks about this line, but use what's really > here in this database if you really want to know the truth." Amen to that. > > Tom Wetmore, ttw@beltway.att.com, ttw@shore.net Cheers, Ben. -- Ben Laurie Phone: +44 (181) 994 6435 Freelance Consultant Fax: +44 (181) 994 6472 and Technical Director Email: ben@algroup.co.uk A.L. Digital Ltd, URL: http://www.algroup.co.uk London, England.