From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Oct 8 21:47:05 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA21503 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:47:03 -0700 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA23880 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:48:03 -0700 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA18562; Sun, 8 Oct 95 23:46:12 CDT Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma018560; Sun, 8 Oct 95 23:46:10 -0500 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA20230 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Sun, 8 Oct 1995 23:47:59 -0500 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Sun, 8 Oct 95 23:47:57 CDT Date: Sun, 8 Oct 95 23:47:57 CDT Message-Id: <9510090447.AA25483@wales> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, zion@webcom.com Subject: My new GenWeb site Using my own LifeLines report programs, I have created a static (no cgi) genweb site on my genealogy.emcee.com account and placed all the info from my 4000 plus names there. The site is at: http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/genweb/genweb.html and contains three different databases with over 4000 names total. It is currently implemented with static, precomputed html files created by my dump_html.ll LifeLines report program. I plan on changing it to a cgi based system that will provide live reports from the database and the same URL will be used then. This GenWeb site features automatic linking of pictures, biographical notes, and journal entries. There is a lot more I can do and will update the site as I add features. Please stop by the above URL and check things out. Hey, I have already found one other genweb site that shares some people with me. Maybe you will too. All comments welcome. Scott Scott McGee | I do NOT want to be wo'd unto! -----------------------+--------------------------------------------------- I speak for myself. | email: smcgee@microware.com Your milage may vary! | web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html -----------------------+--------------------------------------------------- Visit the ZION list homepage at http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/zion.html From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Oct 9 19:51:08 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA25319 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:51:08 -0700 Received: from roxy.sfo.com (roxy.sfo.com [205.162.14.50]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA25706 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:51:01 -0700 From: mavrogeorge@genealogysf.com Received: from 205.162.14.113 (sf-113.sfo.com [205.162.14.113]) by roxy.sfo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA19652 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:50:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:50:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199510100250.TAA19652@roxy.sfo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Genealogy on the WWW To: genweb@UCSD.EDU X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 I, in a rash moment, agreed to be a backup speaker for GenTech in Dallas on the subject of putting your genealogy on the WWW. But would like to know if anyone here is interested in being numero uno so I can remain the understudy . The topic we envisioned would include doing a home page as well as putting your own genealogy up as well. Anyone interested? From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Oct 10 20:43:12 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA28951 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:43:12 -0700 Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.1.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA23118 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:28:50 -0700 Received: from irpsbbs.ucsd.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id UAA11565 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:28:48 -0700 for Received: from IRPS BBS (2400014) by irpsbbs.ucsd.edu (PostalUnion/SMTP 1.2) id AA2400014.856897; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:28:50 PDT Message-ID: <1995Oct10.202904.856897@irpsbbs.ucsd.edu> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU From: ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) Organization: IR/PS UC San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0519 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:29:04 PDT Subject: Re: My new GenWeb site Scott McGee wrote: >Please stop by the above URL and check things out. Hey, I have already found one other genweb site that shares some people with me. Maybe you will too. Scott: Did you make a link between your site and the others? If so, how did you find the other pages? Has anyone been able to create a GenWeb link between WWW servers automatically? Hopefully, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computer/Language Lab Director e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-7733* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-5727* *************************************************************************** From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Oct 10 22:00:01 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA29089 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:00:00 -0700 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA08304; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:58:38 -0700 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA05307; Tue, 10 Oct 95 23:56:48 CDT Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma005305; Tue, 10 Oct 95 23:56:39 -0500 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA16951 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:58:27 -0500 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Tue, 10 Oct 95 23:58:27 CDT Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 23:58:27 CDT Message-Id: <9510110458.AA29621@wales> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, ghoffman@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: My new GenWeb site ghoffman@UCSD.EDU (Gary Hoffman) writes: > >Scott McGee wrote: > >>Please stop by the above URL and check things out. Hey, I have already >>found one other genweb site that shares some people with me. Maybe you >>will too. > >Did you make a link between your site and the others? If so, how did you >find the other pages? No, thanks for reminding me. I need to go back and do just that. I found the common people by looking through Gene Stark's GENDEX indexing site. >Has anyone been able to create a GenWeb link between WWW servers >automatically? Hmm, depends on what you mean by automatically. I have it set up so I can enter certain information in a given format into my LifeLines database, and either my cgi or static HTML programs will correctly use it to create the links. It is actually somewhat primitive still, but works. That is how I created various things like links to Journal and Biographical files, and a link from my main database into two minor databases for one ancestor for which I two possible but no provable candidates. If you wish to see the latter, go to either the ej1750 or ej1754 (which indicates that the databases are for Ezekiel Johnson, born 1750 and Ezekiel Johnson, born 1754 - the two possible ancestors). The entry points are the two possible ancestors and should have links back to the person they may be in the main database. That person, of course, has links to both of the potential candidates. Scott When in danger, | If it has my name on it, it must be MY opinion! or in doubt, |______________________________________________________ run in circles, | Email: smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) scream and shout! | Web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Oct 15 00:37:03 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA15488 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 00:37:02 -0700 Received: from bos1e.delphi.com (bos1e.delphi.com [192.80.63.5]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA25070 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 00:31:41 -0700 From: garcher@BIX.com Received: from bix.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWGDPHDWOG9FMBJH@delphi.com> for genweb@ucsd.edu; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 03:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by bix.com (CoSy3.40) id <9510150330.memo.3742@BIX.com>; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 03:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 03:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Internet "Research" To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Message-id: <9510150330.memo.3742@BIX.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-CoSy-To: genweb@ucsd.edu The Dark Side of Electronic Genealogical "Research" We all love the ease of accessing mountains of data that is spoon-fed to us in the form of CD-ROM, internet-searchable home pages, searchable surname indexes like the IGI, Tiny Tafel Matching System, Roots Surname List, Genserv etc. But there are growing doubts among some that all this data is not what it purports to be: research. It is just easily accessible data whose parentage is suspect. I call your attention to an article appearing in the Fall issue of the Federation of Genealogical Societies' *Forum* by its President, Curt B. Witcher. For those of you who do not have a copy of the article, I'll summarize: o Responsible genealogical researchers apply the same research standards and methods of evaluating evidence to any data, no matter if it is digital or hard copy. o The technological methods (computers, internet, CD-ROM) that make accessing and processing genealogical and historical data easier or more plentiful should not make us suspend traditional research methodology and rules of evidence. = Commercial CD-ROMs that do not document what is left out, the dates of coverage, the location of primary sources used for input, and do not identify secondary sources as data input sources, wrongly put emphasis on the technological means of distribution and not on genealogical credibility of data content. = Internet genealogical data is largly unsourced, secondary source data put there by anyone who has access to internet. Because it is on internet does not make the data true. Speed of access and sheer size of databases does not make it accurate, complete or of value for genealogical research. o Use new technologies to research smarter and better but still use proven genealogical research methodology that distinguishes between primary and secondary sources and applies deductive methods to weighing evidence. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Oct 16 07:03:59 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA21249 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:03:59 -0700 Received: from mwunix.mitre.org (mwunix.mitre.org [128.29.154.1]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04330 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:02:43 -0700 Received: from lear.mitre.org (lear.mitre.org [128.29.222.4]) by mwunix.mitre.org (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA03909 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:01:21 -0400 Received: from lennox.mitre.org.mitre.org by lear.mitre.org (4.1/SMI-4.0-MHS-7.0) id AA05942; Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:01:17 EDT Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:01:17 EDT From: wgroleau@lear.mitre.org (W. Wesley Groleau) Message-Id: <9510161401.AA05942@lear.mitre.org> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Dark Side of Electronic Genealogical "Research" > The Dark Side of Electronic Genealogical "Research" > >.... > >o Use new technologies to research smarter and better but still use >proven genealogical research methodology that distinguishes between >primary and secondary sources and applies deductive methods to >weighing evidence. Yes! Verify everything. NEVERTHELESS, if Alexander the Geek says the Joe Groleau was born in 1632 in Atlantis, that's a lot easier to prove or disprove than when his grandson says "I think my grandpa was born in Africa" From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Oct 16 19:30:46 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA28083 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:30:45 -0700 Received: from roxy.sfo.com (roxy.sfo.com [205.162.14.50]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01028 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:31:45 -0700 From: mavrogeorge@genealogysf.com Received: from 205.162.14.114 (sf-114.sfo.com [205.162.14.114]) by roxy.sfo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA04979 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:30:43 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:30:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199510170230.TAA04979@roxy.sfo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Webified Genealogy To: genweb@UCSD.EDU X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Take a look at http://www.surfutah.com/web/webgen and you will see a commercial site doing what we have discussed here. Generating html on the fly.. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Oct 17 15:08:41 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA06118 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:08:40 -0700 Received: from apple.com (apple.com [130.43.2.2]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01973 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:05:37 -0700 Received: from [17.211.20.84] by apple.com with SMTP (5.61/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA18513; Tue, 17 Oct 95 15:04:12 -0700 for GENWEB@ucsd.edu Message-Id: <9510172204.AA18513@apple.com> X-Sender: tesler@130.43.2.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:05:50 -0800 To: mavrogeorge@genealogysf.com From: tesler@apple.com (Larry Tesler) Subject: Re: Webified Genealogy Cc: GENWEB >Take a look at http://www.surfutah.com/web/webgen and you will see a >commercial site doing what we have discussed here. Generating html on >the fly.. Brian, I looked. I think it's done fairly well. According to the text, he is trying to make a business out of hosting GEDCOM-generated web pages. It does not say he is making the tool available to others with their own servers. Larry ****************************************************************** * Larry Tesler, Chief Scientist, Apple Computer, Inc. * * USMail..1 Infinite Loop, M/S 81-M, Cupertino, CA, 95014 * * EMail...Internet: tesler@apple.com; AppleLink & eWorld: TESLER * * Phone...(408) 974-2219, Fax: (408) 974-1794 * ****************************************************************** From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Oct 18 08:36:03 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU ([132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA14078 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:36:02 -0700 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA25784 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:32:21 -0700 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA12547; Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:30:26 CDT Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma012542; Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:29:56 -0500 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA01351 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:31:41 -0500 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:31:39 CDT Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:31:39 CDT Message-Id: <9510181531.AA01982@wales> To: lines-l@vm1.nodak.edu, mavrogeorge@genealogysf.com, tesler@apple.com Subject: Re: Webified Genealogy Cc: GENWEB@UCSD.EDU I have a cgi based genweb server running now (finally) on genealogy.emcee.com. It is also running on my server at work (which doesn't support outside access right now) If anyone really wants to set up a cgi based genweb site, my system uses LifeLines, and is easily installed on a new site. I am currently in the process of slightly reoganizing my LifeLines report programs (shared functions placed into library files, commenting, general cleanup) but could share them if someone really wanted to set up such a site. To look at the genweb server, the URL http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/genweb/genweb_cgi.html Currently, the smaller two of the three databases I have on emcee via static HTML are installed. The static version is currently availible via the URL http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/genweb/genweb.html but these will soon be deleted and the URL will become the gateway to the cgi version. (The genweb_cgi.html URL will be maintained for some time as a link) I also have recieved permission to begin offering to let others use this cgi setup on genealogy.emcee.com. In other words, anyone there already can set up thier own LifeLines database and serve it using my cgi scripts. Anyone not on emcee can send me a gedcom which I would install in a lifelines database and set up to be served. Meanwhile, I would be most pleased to have people stop by and let me know what you think. Scott From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Oct 22 17:32:46 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01656 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:32:45 -0700 Received: from dub-mail-svc-1.compuserve.com (dub-mail-svc-1.compuserve.com [149.174.213.4]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09326 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:31:09 -0700 Received: from NULL (ad23-018.compuserve.com [199.174.165.18]) by dub-mail-svc-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA29390.; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:31:02 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:31:02 -0400 From: 100610.337@dub-mail-svc-1.compuserve.com, @compuserve.com Message-Id: <199510230031.UAA29390@dub-mail-svc-1.compuserve.com> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Argue family name, connection with Camargue region? Content-type: text/plain Content-length: 248 X-Mailer: AIR Mosaic (16-bit) version 1.00.198.07 Does anyone know where the -argue in Camargue originates? On a map the 1600's a large number of places are show with the suffix -argue. Does anyone know the significance? Does "argue" mean anything in medieval French? Any ideas much appreciated From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Oct 23 11:15:30 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA04797 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:15:28 -0700 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (ux1.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.59]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00773 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:06:18 -0700 Received: from HR_DRACO (fox.ocp.uiuc.edu) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA09449 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:06:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:06:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199510231806.AA09449@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> X-Sender: ml-helm@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ROOTS-L@mail.eworld.com, GENCMP-L@mail.eworld.com, genweb@UCSD.EDU From: ml-helm@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matthew Helm) Subject: Genealogy Toolbox Surname Index Improvements The Genealogy Toolbox Surname Index currently lists links to surnames that appear in World Wide Web and gopher pages. In an attempt to improve the abilities of researchers to find information on the Internet I would like to add more information to the individual entries in the Index. After talking with a few people it seemed that the best and most concise way to do this was to have the index in tiny tafel format. In order to convert the index over to tiny tafel format as quickly as possible, I would like to request that those who have World Wide Web and gopher sites currently indexed on the Toolbox, or who would like to be indexed, email me a copy of the surnames contained on their site in tiny tafel format. Several popular genealogy database programs allow users to export their data in this format. For more information on the tiny tafel format please see Brian Mavrogeorge's article at http://www.sfo.com/~genealogysf/tms.html My hope is that this format coupled with the WAIS search engine that I just installed on the Toolbox will allow researchers greater flexibility in finding resources on the Internet. Any comments on this are appreciated. Thanks. Matthew Helm ml-helm@uiuc.edu Genealogy Toolbox - http://ux1.cso.uiuc.edu/~al-helm/genealogy.html From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Oct 26 22:08:38 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA18098 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:08:37 -0700 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA18346 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:06:12 -0700 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA19698; Fri, 27 Oct 95 00:04:15 CDT Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma019694; Fri, 27 Oct 95 00:03:44 -0500 Received: by mcrware.microware.com id AA15859 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for genweb@ucsd.edu); Fri, 27 Oct 1995 00:05:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 00:05:30 -0500 From: Scott McGee Message-Id: <199510270505.AA15859@mcrware.microware.com> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: Name Match using Gene Stark's Index! Content-Length: 2056 I am kind of excited! Tonight I was looking through Gene Stark's index stuff, looking at the Ward surname, and I found a match with another database! It turns out that both my ej1750 database and graf@xmission.com's Tucker database have William Ward, born 22 Feb, 1648 Middlesex MA. Looking at the two, it is obvious that they are the same person, as is his spouse Hannah Brigham! This is great. I have enquired about the stability of the URL in the Tucker database so that I can make a link from my own entry. My own ej1750 database is on of two possible genealogies for an ancestor of mine, and in my opinion, not the right one (though I can't prove anything yet) so I am unlikely to change it, therefore my own URL for William is stable. If anyone wants to check this out, the two urls are: http://www.xmission.com/~gruf/tucker/d0003/s0000215.htm#I2036 http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/cgi-bin/genweb.cgi/DB=ej1750/INDEX=I26/?LookupInternal (the latter is mine - I gotta do something about those long URL's!) Oh, while on the subject, I now have a number of databases online on my genealogy.emcee.com account. They are all done via CGI using LifeLines and my own report programs (which output HTML directly). I have my own genealogy in the mcgee database, about 3700 names. Two possible genealogies of one ancestor in ej1750 (about 400 names) and ej1754 (only about 22, but more to be entered soon). Also, I have my brother-in-law's harrington database with about 2000 names, and the Royal92 database (from the unmodified royal92 gedcom, mostly for comparing my implementation with others) with about 3000 names. All of these databases can be accessed from the URL: http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/genweb/genweb.html Check it out! Scott If at first, you don't succeed, | smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) go fry a hen. After all, fried | ----------------------------------------- chicken beats failure any time. | I was paid $5.00 to express these views! -------------> http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html <------------- From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Oct 27 13:28:34 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA21204 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:28:34 -0700 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09293 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:29:06 -0700 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA27384; Fri, 27 Oct 95 15:27:09 CDT Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma027379; Fri, 27 Oct 95 15:26:41 -0500 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA07811 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:28:26 -0500 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Fri, 27 Oct 95 15:28:24 CDT Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 15:28:24 CDT Message-Id: <9510272028.AA29270@wales> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU Subject: interdatabase linking As I announced last night, I had found a link between a person in my database and another database. I added links from mine to the other today. It turns out that it was feasible because neither he nor I are working on the particular databases in question. This does, however bring up a really hairy issue. How can we link to another database when the URL itself may change? My genweb stuff is done with a CGI script and LifeLines. I can update the database without changing the URL, but if I ever save and reload the database, all the URL's could change. It is even worse for the other database. It is done with Gene Stark's ged2html, and there is really no way to update the data without risking a change to all the URLs. I have been giving some thought to a method to solve this with my own method. Basically, it involves adding a unique reference to each and every individual in the database and then using this value to do lookups rather than the built in indi value which may change if I save and reload my database. (which is a real concern now as I maintain it here on my work system and serve it from genealogy.emcee.com and can't just tar up the database directory, but must save as a gedcom and reload at the other end!) I guess, too, having several databases up now, I should be thinking about a genweb domain name for my server. (not sure how to do that, someone want to help me with it?) Has anyone else encountered this problem and given it much thought? I know we discussed it a bit a while back, but don't recall any relavant ideas that I can apply to my current delema. Scott Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) Web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Oct 27 15:56:27 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA21902 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:56:26 -0700 Received: from faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.2.45]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14666 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:58:13 -0700 Received: from immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (root@faui80.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.38.1]) by uni-erlangen.de with SMTP id XAA08686 (8.6.12/7.4f-FAU);; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:57:48 +0100 Received: from faui8c by immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de; id AA15250 (5.x/7.3w-FAU); Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:57:47 +0100 From: Herbert Stoyan Message-Id: <9510272257.AA15250@immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:57:44 +0100 To: smcgee@microware.com Subject: Re: interdatabase linking Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Scott discusses the problems which occur if one links two databases together but the urls get invalid, if one data bases gets changed. Well Scott, this is a problem which I have solved long ago. Urls should not contain any info on the internal state of a data base. Therefore I use for interdatabase links urls with names. It works fine! I run WW-Person with 32 data bases now and have lots of interdatabase links. Each second day I regenerate a database new -- no problem. A link like http://www8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/cgi-bin/ll/BASE=stoyan/LANG=engl/F=Herbert/N=Stoyan/?Lookup remains valid. This problem is the reason that I removed all my links into Brian's Royal Data base. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Oct 27 21:32:20 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox1.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.53]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA22638 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 21:32:20 -0700 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA21889 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 21:34:15 -0700 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA01010; Fri, 27 Oct 95 23:29:31 CDT Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma001004; Fri, 27 Oct 95 23:29:05 -0500 Received: from wales (wales.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA19389 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:30:45 -0500 From: Scott McGee Received: by wales id ; Fri, 27 Oct 95 23:30:43 CDT Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 23:30:43 CDT Message-Id: <9510280430.AA01676@wales> To: Herbert.Stoyan@informatik.uni-erlangen.de, smcgee@microware.com Subject: Re: interdatabase linking Cc: genweb@UCSD.EDU Herbert Stoyan writes: > >I run WW-Person with 32 data bases now and have lots of interdatabase links. >Each second day I regenerate a database new -- no problem. > >A link like http://www8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/cgi-bin/ll/BASE=stoyan/\ LANG=engl/F=Herbert/N=Stoyan/?Lookup > >remains valid. Ah, something that I have thought of, but it is also non-unique. For instance, the match I found last night was a person named William Ward. I have five William Wards in my database. What is really needed is something both unique and permanant. I think my idea of a unique identifier (similar to the Ancestoral Family AFN) is the way to go. I'll have to have some way to verify that every one is unique (should be simple to code that in LifeLines) and also some way to add them. Currently it either hand edit each record in the database to add them manually, or write the database to GEDCOM so it can be manipulated by a program, and then read it back in. Since I am not about to hand edit 4-7 thousand records, I'll have to figure out a program to do it in gedcom. Something like that will work for my cgi based stuff (which I should point out here is based on Herbert's!) and can be addapted for my static stuff. Something similar might be addaptable for Gene Stark's ged2html. Scott If at first, you don't succeed, | smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) go fry a hen. After all, fried | ----------------------------------------- chicken beats failure any time. | I was paid $5.00 to express these views! -------------> http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html <------------- From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Oct 29 13:11:55 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA29201 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:11:55 -0800 Received: from gate.microware.com (gate.microware.com [198.17.151.51]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA21505 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:09:02 -0800 Received: by gate.microware.com; id AA00974; Sun, 29 Oct 95 15:07:07 CST Received: from mcrware.microware.com(192.52.109.32) by gate.microware via smap (g3.0.1) id xma000969; Sun, 29 Oct 95 15:06:51 -0600 Received: from snake (snake.microware.com) by mcrware.microware.com with SMTP id AA04087 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:08:36 -0600 From: Scott McGee Received: by snake id ; Sun, 29 Oct 95 15:08:35 CST Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 15:08:35 CST Message-Id: <9510292108.AA00746@snake> To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, lifelines@microware.com Subject: My CGI based genweb software As I anounced recently, I have several database served in GenWeb form with CGI based LifeLines programs. Several people have asked about my software, and I have just finished putting together an archive of the needed files. It is availible from my genweb page, or directly via the URL http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/lifelines/genweb_cgi.tar.Z Anyone wishing to experiment with it is welcome to download it. I should state up front that these LifeLines programs and the main cgi script are my work, but based largely on the work of others. In particular, Birger Wathne and Tom Wetmore provided much of the original code and much assistance in getting this stuff to where it is now. Of course, none of this would be possible without Tom Wetmore's LifeLines program! You can look at my own GenWeb site, running this software, at: http://www.emcee.com/~smcgee/genweb/genweb.html and feel free to ask questions regarding it. Scott Web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html | Why do I need a email: smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) | disclaimer? Nobody | Duct tape is like the FORCE! It has a light side | has ever beleived | and a dark side and holds the universe together. | me yet! Would you? From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Oct 30 02:25:29 1995 Received: from UCSD.EDU (mailbox2.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.54]) by fuji.ucsd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA02216 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 02:25:28 -0800 Received: from chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk (chopin.ucc.hull.ac.uk [150.237.176.14]) by UCSD.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA03306 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 02:13:59 -0800 Received: from mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk (actually host bertie.dcs.hull.ac.uk) by chopin with SMTP local (PP); Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:13:34 +0000 Received: from olympus.dcs.hull.ac.uk by mailhub.dcs.hull.ac.uk with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0t9rEg-0003reC; Mon, 30 Oct 95 10:14 GMT Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 10:11:45 GMT Message-Id: <24350.9510301011@olympus.dcs.hull.ac.uk> From: Brian Tompsett To: genweb@UCSD.EDU, smcgee@microware.com, Herbert.Stoyan@informatik.uni-erlangen.de In-Reply-To: <9510272257.AA15250@immd8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Subject: Re: interdatabase linking Herbert Stoyan writes: > Scott discusses the problems which occur if one links two databases together > but the urls get invalid, if one data bases gets changed. > > Well Scott, this is a problem which I have solved long ago. Urls should not > contain any info on the internal state of a data base. Therefore I use > for interdatabase links urls with names. It works fine! Herbert and I discussed this on this list and via private email some considerable time ago. It was clear at the start of the genweb list that a form of long-lived record identifier was needed when different databases are going to store links to each other. I wrote a discussion document on it. I have a strong feeling that names are not suitable as links in very large databases of the form I keep. Many records just cannot be disambiguated by simple names alone. Rather than repeat year old discussions let me say that I concluded that some othre ID had to be allocated, and must remain valid for some considerable time. If you remember we also linked this idea with the genweb domain. In this way databases could be given long lived identifiers also. As a result I implemented access by name and Long Lifetime numeric IDs to my database. I had hoped that my database would also be within the the genweb name space by now, but interest seemed to be more in the direction of family data. > I run WW-Person with 32 data bases now and have lots of interdatabase links. > Each second day I regenerate a database new -- no problem. Yes. I manage about 8 databases that get regenerated frequently, and the method of accessing an individuals record never changes. In fact, if you look carefully you can discern the links between my different databases of American, Swedish, Irish and English datasets, which allow me to manage several in-parallel lines. > A link like http://www8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/cgi-bin/ll/BASE=stoyan/LANG=engl/F=Herbert/N=Stoyan/?Lookup > remains valid. Just like both: http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal?royal3031 http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedname/n=royal?,+AEthelheard+of+Wessex,+King+of+Wessex" both access the same record. The former can be implemented much faster than the latter. (performance is a problem I have due to sharing the machine with other research and teaching users!). The former method will always work, even when research might cause the spelling of this persons name to change, or I spelt it using the ISO ligatures. The latter would not. > This problem is the reason that I removed all my links into Brian's Royal > Data base. This is just plain wrong. Herbert must be confused as to the facts. He and I disagree about the best way to name a record, but both data holders have implemented different but comparable methods of access giving long lived record IDs. Brian