Thursday, February 2, 1995 8:30:07 AM GenWeb Item From: Gary Hoffman,ghoffman@ucsd.edu,Internet Subject: Mailing List Maintenance To: GenWeb To subscribers to various mailing lists hosted at UC San Diego: The mail traffic through the mail router 'ucsd.edu' has increased alarmingly in recent weeks. This has caused delays in posting long messages to large mailing lists. The Network Operations managers are taking steps to balance the load among several computers that answer to the name 'ucsd.edu.' When this project is complete in several weeks, we should see improvement in service. Meanwhile, please be aware that a message posted to your favorite mailing list may take one to several days to appear. If your message does not appear within 5 days, please notify me and I will seek assistance from Network Operations. Happy e-mailing, Gary *************************************************************************** *Gary B. Hoffman, Computer/Language Lab Director e-mail: ghoffman@ucsd.edu* *Graduate School of International Relations and Pacific Studies (IR/PS)* *University of California, San Diego (UCSD) voice: (619) 534-7733* *9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093-0519 USA fax: (619) 534-3939* *************************************************************************** Thursday, February 2, 1995 11:37:41 AM GenWeb Item From: Bill Minnick,svpafug@rahul.net,Internet Subject: Re: GenWeb Site Census To: GenWeb In article Gary Hoffman writes: >Subject: GenWeb Site Census >I request that everyone with at least some genealogy pages in WWW format >please announce your site to this mailing list. The Silicon Valley PAF Users Group and Austin Families Association of America are pleased to announce that we have successfully installed a large linked data base on the Web. Wecall it "The Descendants of Richard Austin, Charlestown, Massachustees, 1638" (limited to Austin surnames). This is a 6,500 person data base, representing the equivalent information found in a 550 page book. We are indebted to Birger Wathne (scripts), Gene Stark (ged2html 1.1) and Tom Wetmore (Lifelines 3.0.1). We also recognize the efforts of Jim Carlin and his 15 person team who compiled the Richard Austin data base. We generate the HTML on the fly for individual pages; we have the top-level index as a stored HTML page for speed; we calculate the second level index page (currently too long at 2.5 minutes response time). We provide a complete family GEDCOM file on request. All we need now is an efficient GENWEB individual search mechanism, and an E-Mail feedback point associated with each individual so we can receive corrections, additions, additional sources, photos, etc. directed to an individual or family. Regards, Bill Minnick Thursday, February 2, 1995 4:24:27 PM GenWeb Item From: Chuck Wheeler,chuckw@cnw.com,Internet Subject: genweb list To: GenWeb I have many people in my Brothers Keeper files, but as I am fairly new to=20 the internet I know not what is meant by WWW format. Can you help me? Chuck Wheeler Thursday, February 2, 1995 5:27:24 PM GenWeb Item From: Tim Parker,tparker@infinet.com,Internet Subject: ged2html ?? To: GenWeb I have seen reference to this program in several messages. Is this for unix based machines or my little dos/windows box ok? If so, where is it available. Thanks for the question [working on a WWW Page and would love to automate it just a little.] Thanks tim parker Thursday, February 2, 1995 11:09:56 PM GenWeb Item From: Gary Hoffman,ghoffman@ucsd.edu,Internet Subject: Basic GenWeb Concept To: GenWeb For a primer in the GenWeb idea, please visit the GenWeb Proposal at URL http://irpsbbs.ucsd.edu/gene/genedemo.html We are also working on a set of Frequently Asked Questions to help everyone along as we develop this idea. Volunteers are welcome. Please step forward. Gary Friday, February 3, 1995 12:05:21 AM GenWeb Item From: Gary Hoffman,ghoffman@UCSD.EDU,Internet Subject: Who Owns Genealogy? To: GenWeb In the aftermath of last week's GenTech convention in Dallas, I now believe that the future success of GenWeb as a credible publishing medium of the results of genealogy research will depend on contributors taking responsibility for their submissions. I was forced to take this position time and again when I explained the GenWeb concept and found a near-universal response. People would say to me, "That's a good idea, BUT what's to keep GenWeb from getting corrupted by bad data like Ancestral File?" I believe that responsibility may be achieved if we introduce a concept of ownership to genealogy. In this model, the submitter remains the owner of the submission and is responsible for its correctness, while the GenWeb archive site operator is merely the distributor, responsible only for technically delivering a copy of the data to an interested browser. (These may be both one and the same person in most cases. But where a researcher is the submitter and another person the archive site owner, then the distinction should be drawn.) I consider ownership so important that I intend to prepare an essay to be called "Who Owns Genealogy?" This issue becomes immediately relevant if we take seriously Bill Minnick's challenge to develop an e-mail repository for comments upon each ancestor's data record. Bill wants to give browsing users the ability to e-mail comments to each record in an archive. This proposal raises several issues: Will a user be able to post comments automatically or should "bad" comments be filtered out? Who does the filtering and using what criteria? What documentary support must a user provide before the comments are considered valid? I submit that the owner of the data record should remain the author of all changes. E-mail should be addressed to the owner and he/she decides how to update the record. This approach should avoid the owner-less Ancestral File whose entries are whip-sawed by multiple edits each revision cycle. But this approach raises new questions: If the owner of the data and the owner of the host GenWeb archive are separate and distinct, must their relationship be set out in a contract or license? What is the term of such contract: 1 year, 5 years, life (whose?)? If the term lapses, must the data be purged? Is ownership of GenWeb data devisable in a will? What if the GenWeb archivist turns off his computer, is he in breach of the contract? How much "uptime" should be warranted by contract? I invite comment upon these issues so that we can lay out a new paradigm of responsible data sharing for genealogists on the WWW. Gary Friday, February 3, 1995 6:11:11 AM GenWeb Item From: Brian Tompsett,B.C.Tompsett@computer-science.hull.ac.uk,Internet Subject: Re: genweb list To: GenWeb > chuckw@cnw.com (Chuck Wheeler) writes: >I have many people in my Brothers Keeper files, but as I am fairly new to >the internet I know not what is meant by WWW format. Can you help me? My data (Royal's of UK and Europe) is also kept in Brother's Keeper. In order to put it all online I first needed to make it into a GEDCOM file. The export function of BK is used for this. The GEDCOM needs to be moved to a machine that is accessable from the internet using preferable the http service (but it can work via the anonymous ftp or even gopher services). In my case this is one of our several unix network servers. It could just as easily be a fast PC running one of the available Windows or DOS server implementations. The GEDCOM is loaded into some form of database on the server machine and some command programs that access the database are made available via the network server. The database can be of various forms. I use a special file format designed for the purpose which is accessed via perl scripts. Other sites use the Lifelines genealogy package to host the data. Frequently Asked Question documents (FAQs) have been posted to this list to guide people into how to make it work. All the software that we use is also readily available at the differnt host sites. I hope this elucidates the process. Brian Friday, February 3, 1995 12:09:53 PM GenWeb Item From: Larry Maddocks Contract,LMADDOCKS@wpmail.code3.com,Internet Subject: Who Owns Genealogy? -Reply To: GenWeb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that responsibility may be achieved if we introduce a concept of ownership to genealogy. In this model, the submitter remains the owner of the submission and is responsible for its correctness, while the GenWeb archive site operator is merely the distributor, responsible only for technically delivering a copy of the data to an interested browser. (These may be both one and the same person in most cases. But where a researcher is the submitter and another person the archive site owner, then the distinction should be drawn.) I consider ownership so important that I intend to prepare an essay to be called "Who Owns Genealogy?"... I submit that the owner of the data record should remain the author of all changes. E-mail should be addressed to the owner and he/she decides how to update the record. This approach should avoid the owner-less Ancestral File whose entries are whip-sawed by multiple edits each revision cycle.... Gary <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I'm new to this thread and I'm not sure how the data will be stored. Your ownership idea depends on this. The idea of taking ownership for your data intrigues me so much that I would like to take it one more step further: Have interested parties take ownership of their common ancestors. Have them form a research committee and try to come to some agreement if there is a discrepancy. If no agreement can be made, put it in the database both ways and put in the supporting facts. There is no need to have cousins disagreeing with each other when they can have more enjoyment sharing research assignments. Is there going to be some kind of merge algorithm to merge GEDCOM files? I recommend there be since most of everyone's GEDCOM files are the result of merging in someone else's research. As I refine my data and add more sources and names, I send a new GEDCOM file to the Ancestral File. If I sent an additional GEDCOM file to GenWeb, would it be duplicated, or merged? Many GEDCOM files out there on the BBS's are public domain; the authors may not have access to the internet or be inclined to update every GEDCOM database every time they update their PAF. If we had individual owners, many GEDCOM files would remain unchanged and you would have a worse situation than Ancestral Files has. So I propose on-line research committees, merging of data, and working together as a dynamic team. --Larry Maddocks Friday, February 3, 1995 4:24:45 PM GenWeb Item From: Brian Randell,Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk,Internet Subject: Re: Who Owns Genealogy? To: GenWeb Gary: >In the aftermath of last week's GenTech convention in Dallas, I now believe >that the future success of GenWeb as a credible publishing medium of the >results of genealogy research will depend on contributors taking >responsibility for their submissions. I was forced to take this position >time and again when I explained the GenWeb concept and found a >near-universal response. People would say to me, "That's a good idea, BUT >what's to keep GenWeb from getting corrupted by bad data like Ancestral >File?" > >I believe that responsibility may be achieved if we introduce a concept of >ownership to genealogy. In this model, the submitter remains the owner of >the submission and is responsible for its correctness, while the GenWeb >archive site operator is merely the distributor, responsible only for >technically delivering a copy of the data to an interested browser. (These >may be both one and the same person in most cases. But where a researcher >is the submitter and another person the archive site owner, then the >distinction should be drawn.) I consider ownership so important that I >intend to prepare an essay to be called "Who Owns Genealogy?" This is hardly an "introduction of a concept" - since this is exactly the basis on which Genserv - and for all I know various other services - works. >This issue becomes immediately relevant if we take seriously Bill Minnick's >challenge to develop an e-mail repository for comments upon each ancestor's >data record. Bill wants to give browsing users the ability to e-mail >comments to each record in an archive. This proposal raises several issues: >Will a user be able to post comments automatically or should "bad" comments >be filtered out? Who does the filtering and using what criteria? What >documentary support must a user provide before the comments are considered >valid? > >I submit that the owner of the data record should remain the author of all >changes. E-mail should be addressed to the owner and he/she decides how to >update the record. This approach should avoid the owner-less Ancestral File >whose entries are whip-sawed by multiple edits each revision cycle. Agreed - however one has to face up to the fact that after a while much data would likely to become ownerless. One can draw a useful analogy to the world of book publishing. An author does not go on issuing improved editions of his/her books for ever, but published book reviews (possibly produced many years afterwards) provide an avenue for commenting on , indeed providing corrections to, the books to which they refer - such reviews themselves are published works which have an owner of course, and could be further "corrected". Applying the analogy, one needs to provide means of identifying (i) the owner of a document, (ii) a document that is being commented on, and (iii) the documents that comment on a given document, (iv) any preceding and subsequent editions of a given document. (This is written as though all editions of all documents remain accessible - an ideal which computer storage developments might allow us to approach.) Cheers Brian Dept. of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk PHONE = +44 91 222 7923 FAX = +44 91 222 8232 Sunday, February 5, 1995 2:15:35 PM GenWeb Item From: Scott McGee,smcgee@microware.com,Internet Subject: SUCCESS! To: GenWeb Well, after a lot of trying, I have finally gotten my genweb software all working. I finally today was able to track down the remaining few problems. Our server is currently configured to refuse connections from offsite, so I can't announce it as availible yet, but I have it working for as soon as our sysadmins decide they can open access. They have other reasons to open it up to the outside so I am confident that it will soon happen. Then I have about 1300 names to make availible on the net. Meanwhile, I will take some time today to write up the problems I ran into so that we can nail down a good faq on doing this. Thanks to those of you who have provided feedback and helped me get this going. Oh, just in case some of you wonder, it has taken me this long, not because I had such overwhelming problems, but because I only have lynx availible to browse from home with, and it has problems with cgi, so I could only work on it a few minutes each day during lunch and such. Look for further info for the FAQ, hopefully today! Scott Monday, February 6, 1995 10:24:32 AM GenWeb Item From: Gary Hoffman,ghoffman@ucsd.edu,Internet Subject: Fwd: Re: Who Owns Genealogy? To: GenWeb Private reply forwarded to GenWeb list with permission: From: Bruce Olsen >I believe that responsibility may be achieved if we introduce a concept of >ownership to genealogy. In this model, the submitter remains the owner of >the submission and is responsible for its correctness, while the GenWeb >archive site operator is merely the distributor, responsible only for >technically delivering a copy of the data to an interested browser. (These >may be both one and the same person in most cases. But where a researcher >is the submitter and another person the archive site owner, then the >distinction should be drawn.) I consider ownership so important that I >intend to prepare an essay to be called "Who Owns Genealogy?" > I whole heartedly agree with this position. The best way to look at this is that there are authors, publishers and libraries. These three have been the backbone of most science done in the print medium. The roles should remain, only the media will changes. Authors create genealogical materials and accept sole responsibility for their quality. Publishers are an intermediary that helps an author convert materials into a distributable form and then distributes those materials to the public. A library then provides patrons with access to materials in its collection without passing judgement on the quality of those materials. The only differences I see in the electronic world are: "Going out of print" may mean vanishing forever if some library does not go to the expense of preserving the data. Publishers may decide to serve as the libraries. This has archival problems when publishers come and go. True archival libraries must serve a function here. How does everyone the chain receive compensation for their effort when there is no physical object that can be sold or owned. >I submit that the owner of the data record should remain the author of all >changes. E-mail should be addressed to the owner and he/she decides how to >update the record. This approach should avoid the owner-less Ancestral File >whose entries are whip-sawed by multiple edits each revision cycle. > This is absolutely correct. >But this approach raises new questions: If the owner of the data and the >owner of the host GenWeb archive are separate and distinct, must their >relationship be set out in a contract or license? What is the term of such >contract: 1 year, 5 years, life (whose?)? If the term lapses, must the data >be purged? Is ownership of GenWeb data devisable in a will? What if the >GenWeb archivist turns off his computer, is he in breach of the contract? >How much "uptime" should be warranted by contract? > Authors will publish with publishers of proven reliability. Libraries will archive materials from publishers with proven track records. Genealogists will access, link to and otherwise rely upon those publishers/libraries that have proven their reliability. This is no different from the current state of paper publication. There will be junk and their will be gems and the community will quickly learn those publishers who have the reputation for delivering quality products that have been carefully reviewed. ____________________ Dan R. Olsen Jr. Computer Science Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801) 378-2225 FAX 801-378-7775 Monday, February 6, 1995 12:02:25 PM GenWeb Item From: steele@census.works.ti.com,Internet Subject: Ownership but also Scholarship To: GenWeb Dan R. Olsen Jr. said: >Authors will publish with publishers of proven reliability. Libraries will >archive materials from publishers with proven track records. Genealogists >will access, link to and otherwise rely upon those publishers/libraries >that have proven their reliability. This is no different from the current >state of paper publication. There will be junk and their will be gems and >the community will quickly learn those publishers who have the reputation >for delivering quality products that have been carefully reviewed. I agree with Gary Hoffman's previous messages on the author should take ownership of their work. However Dan Olsen's comments points out a different problem. In print, Genealogists rely on publishers/libraries that have proven their reliability as Dan has commented. If you have a paper published in The American Genealogist, NEGHS or NGS Quarterly there is an expectation that the paper as been reviewed by a peer for scholarly work. In the electronic medium of the Web or GEDCOM for that matter there has been NO such standard imposed. This has been a a major concern for me. Will having submitters to GENWEB take ownership be enough? There are already people looking at lack of responsible documenting in recording genealogy data on the computer. For instance, The Silicon Valley PAF Users Group has taken steps to publish guidelines for documenting that tend to be overlooked by users of other software since they addressed PAF Users. (take a look at their Web site) Will GENWEB be able to publish similiar guidelines and have people actually use them? How do you get someone submitting 'garbage' genealogy to correct it? If this is accomplished with users being able to leave comments to the 'owner' of the data will other visitors to the web site and its data be able to see those comments too? Jeri Wednesday, February 8, 1995 10:03:48 PM GenWeb Item From: Scott McGee,smcgee@microware.com,Internet Subject: FAQ info To: GenWeb OK, below you will find my notes to Herbert's FAQ material. This is based on my recent experiences setting up a node based on this material. >What to do if you want to become a genweb node: > >1.) Be sure that your stock of information is in gedcom format. To learn about > that, consult .... Dunno, I started with LifeLines. >2.) Get a copy of the Lifelines data base management system from ttw@beltway.att.com >3.) Install Lifelines. >4.) Read your gedcom-files into Lifelines and make the resulting data base > accessible (in Unix: chmod -R 777 db). If you are concerned with protecting your database (this IS just a copy of your database isn't it? It SHOULD be!), you can remove execute and write permission on all files (not dirs) except the one named "key". This one must be publicly writable to allow locking of the database that is done by Life- lines. >5.) find out where the cgi-bin directory is on your site, and get rights to > put scripts in that directory. Probably should add a notice that on some systems, users can use the server cgi-bin dir, and on others users can have a private cgi-bin dir. This is all pretty much installation dependant and must be determined by asking the local sysadmin. >6.) change the ll script added at the end to cover your needs (put your > directories in). See my notes there. >7.) change the standardperson report at the end (ignore the first, take the > second only) to cover your needs (put your url in). Again, see my notes there. >8.) put the ll script in the cgi-bin directory and adapt the rights for open > execution. This should read, "put the cgi script 'standardall', in the cgi-bin..." >9.) put the standardperson report in the right directory (the one mentioned > in ll) and adapt the rights for open access. >10.) be sure that everything is in the right directory and all access rights are > set properly (to permit open access to ftp). >11.) test your own site. >12.) communicate your new site to genweb. > >---------- >X-Sun-Data-Type: default >X-Sun-Data-Description: default >X-Sun-Data-Name: standardperson >X-Sun-Content-Lines: 68 > >proc main () >{ > getindi(i, "Whose HTML file do you want?") > if (i) { > call genhtml(i) > } Here I would suggest adding the following code: else { "\n" " ERROR - ENTRY NOT FOUND \n" "\n" "

ERROR - ENTRY NOT FOUND

\n" "\n" } to handle the case where a query fails for some reason. Note here that Herbert included two versions of the standardperson LL report. One does name lookups, and the other (this one) does lookups by LL key value. I found that the standardall script is set up for this one even though I thought something in here said to use the second. >} > >proc genhtml (i) >{ "\n" > "" key(i) ": " name(i,0) "\n\n" "\n" > "

" > set(vn,givens(i)) > set(vn1,save(vn)) > givens(i) > " " > set(nn,surname(i)) > set(nn1,save(nn)) > nn1 > "

\n" > if (e, birth(i)) {"*: " long(e) "
\n"} > if (e, death(i)) {"+: " long(e) "\n"} > "
\n" > fornodes(inode(i),n){ > if (p, father(i)) { > "" "Father:" > " "/INDEX=" > key(p) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(p)) {t " "} > fullname(p,0,1,300) > "
\n"} > if (p, mother(i)) { > "" "Mother:" > " "/INDEX=" > key(p) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(p)) {t " "} > fullname(p,0,1,300) > "
\n"} > "
\n" > families(i, f, s, n) { > "" "Family " > d(n) > ":\n" > if (s) { /* family has a spouse */ > " "/INDEX=" > key(s) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(s)) {t " "} > fullname(s,0,1,300) > "\n"} > if (e, marriage(f)) {"oo " long(e) "

\n"} > "

    \n" > children(f, c, nn) { > "
  1. "/INDEX=" > key(c) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(c)) {t " "} > fullname(c,0,1,300) > "\n"} > "
\n"} > "" >}} >---------- >X-Sun-Data-Type: default >X-Sun-Data-Description: default >X-Sun-Data-Name: standardperson >X-Sun-Content-Lines: 90 This version does a name lookup, but the standardall script needs to be changed to use it. I suggest using the first, getting everything working, and only then worrying about this version. After you have things working and know pretty well what's happening, this is a better method in that you are not dependant on LL's internal key values. I am not sure this version works quite right, but am also not sure it doesn't. I had problems with it, but later found other problems that may have contributed. > >proc main () >{getstr(j, "Whose HTML file do you want (1)?") > set(ns,save(j)) > indiset(is) > getindiset(is, "Whose HTML file do you want?") > set(i,0) > set(ve,index(ns,"/",1)) > set(nn,"") > set(vn,"") > if(ne(ve,0)) {set(vn1,substring(ns,1,sub(ve,2))) > set(vn,save(vn1)) > set(nn1,substring(ns,add(ve,1),sub(strlen(ns),1))) > set(nn,save(nn1))} > if (is) {forindiset(is,j,x,y){set(v,givens(j)) > set(v1,save(v)) > set(c,strcmp(v1,vn)) > if(eq(c,0)){set(n,surname(j)) > set(n1,save(n)) > set(c,strcmp(n1,"____")) > if(eq(c,0)){ > if(eq(0,strlen(nn))) > {set(c,0)} > else{set(c,1)}} > else{set(c,strcmp(n1,nn))} > if(eq(c,0)){set(i,j)}}}} > if (i) { > call genhtml(i) > } >} > >proc genhtml (i) >{ "\n" > "" key(i) ": " name(i,0) "\n\n" "\n" > "

" > set(vn,givens(i)) > set(vn1,save(vn)) > givens(i) > " " > set(nn,surname(i)) > set(nn1,save(nn)) > nn1 > "

\n" > if (e, birth(i)) {"*: " long(e) "
\n"} > if (e, death(i)) {"+: " long(e) "\n"} > "
\n" > fornodes(inode(i),n){ > if (p, father(i)) { > "" "Father:" > " "/INDEX=" > key(p) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(p)) {t " "} > fullname(p,0,1,300) > "
\n"} > if (p, mother(i)) { > "" "Mother:" > " "/INDEX=" > key(p) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(p)) {t " "} > fullname(p,0,1,300) > "
\n"} > "
\n" > families(i, f, s, n) { > "" "Family " > d(n) > ":\n" > if (s) { /* family has a spouse */ > " "/INDEX=" > key(s) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(s)) {t " "} > fullname(s,0,1,300) > "\n"} > if (e, marriage(f)) {"oo " long(e) "

\n"} > "

    \n" > children(f, c, nn) { > "
  1. "/INDEX=" > key(c) > "/?LookupInternal\">" > if (t,title(c)) {t " "} > fullname(c,0,1,300) > "\n"} > "
\n"} > "" >}} >---------- >X-Sun-Data-Type: shell-script >X-Sun-Data-Description: shell-script >X-Sun-Data-Name: standardll >X-Sun-Content-Lines: 77 > >#!/bin/sh > ># ># ll-gw : WWW to lifelines gateway ># ># CGI gateway program for NCSA httpd and LifeLines ># ># by Birger A. Wathne, Skrivervik Data AS, 1994 ># Birger.Wathne@sdata.no ># ># ># Supported lookup types: ># ># Index - Generate index of database ># Search - Search form ># LookupInternal - Look up person based on internal reference ID ># Lookup - Look up person based on stable reference ID ># ># Only Lookupinternal has been implemented. The other options ># will be implemented when support is available in LifeLines (real soon now) ># > >if [ $# -ne 1 ]; then > echo "Content-type: text/plain" > echo > echo "Argument count error" > exit >fi > >case $1 in >"LookupInternal" ) > >inde=`echo $PATH_INFO|sed -e 's/^.*INDEX=\([^\/]*\).*$/\1/'` > > echo "Content-type: text/html" > echo > echo > mkdir /tmp/ged.$$ > LLDATABASES=/user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lissp/$db ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the path to your LifeLines database. Note that in Herber's example, $db is not defined. > LLPROGRAMS=/user8c/hstoyan/bocal ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the path to the LifeLines reports directory where standardperson is. > LLREPORTS=/tmp/ged.$$ > TERM=vt100 > export LLDATABASES LLPROGRAMS LLREPORTS TERM > (ehco r/user8c/hstoyan/bocal/personi ; echo $inde ; echo i/tmp/ged.$$/$inde.html ; echo q) | /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lines /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lissp/$db > /tmp/ged.$$/logfile 2>&1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ note that the path here is not needed. ^^^^^^^ Here, "personi" should read "standardperson" ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Note that this path part is not needed. As for the end of the string that is either offscreen or scrolled if your machine is like mine, see below. /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lines /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lissp/$db > /tmp/ged.$$/logfile 2>&1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the full path to the LifeLines executable ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the full path to the LifeLines database Also, if you have LifeLines 3.0.1, you might as well run it in read only mode by adding a "-r" to the command line. Therefore, the above line should read: (echo rstandardperson ; echo $inde ; echo i$inde.html ; echo q) | /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lines -r /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lissp/$db > /tmp/ged.$$/logfile 2>&1 > cat /tmp/ged.$$/$inde.html > cd / > rm -rf /tmp/ged.$$ > exit > ;; > > "Lookup") > >name=`echo $PATH_INFO|sed -e 's/^.*N=\([^\/]*\).*$/\1/'` >fname=`echo $PATH_INFO|sed -e 's/^.*F=\([^\/]*\).*$/\1/'` > > echo "Content-type: text/html" > echo > > mkdir /tmp/ged.$$ > LLDATABASES=/user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lissp/$db > LLPROGRAMS=/user8c/hstoyan/bocal > LLREPORTS=/tmp/ged.$$ > TERM=vt100 > export LLDATABASES LLPROGRAMS LLREPORTS TERM > (echo r/user8c/hstoyan/bocal/person ; echo $fname $name ; echo $fname $name ; echo i/tmp/ged.$$/$inde.html ; echo q) | /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lines /user8c/hstoyan/bocal/lissp/$db > /tmp/ged.$$/logfile 2>&1 > cat /tmp/ged.$$/$inde.html > cd / > rm -rf /tmp/ged.$$ > exit > ;; >esac > >echo "Content-type: text/html" >echo >echo "Illegal argument" > That's about it. If followed carefully, this should work. It would be good if someone else could take this and see if they can set up a site without any fussing or adjusting other than the manditory path changes. If so, it should be prettied up and used as a FAQ. My thanks to Herbert for making the base info availible, and to several of you for answering questions untill I figured it all out. Scott Web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html | Why do I need a email: smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) | disclaimer? Nobody | Duct tape is like the FORCE! It has a light side | has ever beleived | and a dark side and holds the universe together. | me yet! Would you? Thursday, February 9, 1995 5:17:23 AM GenWeb Item From: Herbert Stoyan,hstoyan@faui80.informatik.uni-erlangen.de,Internet Subject: FAQ To: GenWeb Now, Gary, if Scott made proposals to correct the FAQ, how can we install it? Thursday, February 9, 1995 11:24:40 PM GenWeb Item From: Gary Hoffman,ghoffman@ucsd.edu,Internet Subject: Final FAQs? To: GenWeb To GenWebbers: When we have FAQs finalized (if ever) I can cause them to be affixed to the mailing list and be announced to newcomers as well as other inquirers. However, I caution against putting actual code or even code fragments into an FAQ. Instead, let's put a pointer to someone's FTP or HTTP server so that folks can fetch it when they need it. That way we can keep the FAQs in plain text. BTW, I am working on a GenWeb "home page" (please pardon that overused term) that will gather all current info on the project into one location. It must wait until after I take the Calif Bar Exam later this month...priorities, you know. That is the reason I am lying low at present. In early March, you will begin to hear more from me, I promise. Cheers, Gary Saturday, February 11, 1995 6:25:11 PM GenWeb Item From: R.Mclee,R.McLee@sheffield.ac.uk,Internet Subject: Good day to you all. To: GenWeb My name is Ross McLee. Though I am not a genealogist, my mother is and has particular interests in the running of the Federation of Family History Societies (UK). She herself is one a few of the committees within the federation, and has assisted in the formation of the BIGR. Those of you who subscribed might remember her name. We were 'bombed' to say the least with the incoming mail (4-500 pieces a day for 6 months!!!!!) I am enquiring on her behalf of my mother, how many people / societies are connected to the internet . If so if they could contact me with their e-mail addresses we might be able to help all the members of those societies with their interest for research in Great Britain. Any comments, addresses for societies, or any help you can give we would be greatly appreciated. Ross McLee, Engineering Student, Sheffield University. Sunday, February 12, 1995 12:27:21 PM GenWeb Item From: Brian Randell,Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk,Internet Subject: Re: Good day to you all. To: GenWeb Hi Ross: >My name is Ross McLee. Though I am not a genealogist, my mother is >and has particular interests in the running of the Federation of >Family History Societies (UK). She herself is one a few of the >committees within the federation, and has assisted in the formation >of the BIGR. Those of you who subscribed might remember her name. We >were 'bombed' to say the least with the incoming mail (4-500 pieces a >day for 6 months!!!!!) > >I am enquiring on her behalf of my mother, how many people / >societies are connected to the internet . If so if they could contact >me with their e-mail addresses we might be able to help all the >members of those societies with their interest for research in Great >Britain. > >Any comments, addresses for societies, or any help you can give we >would be greatly appreciated. I can't answer your question directly, but should be in a better position to do so in a couple of months or so, at least as regards people. Let me explain. I am one of a small group of people, led by John Woodgate who are trying to get a Usenet newsgroup set up called soc.genealogy.uk+ireland. (This would join a set of existing newsgroups in the soc.genealogy hierarchy.) The formal "Request for Discussion" should be posted any day now, and this will be followed by a "Call for Votes". Whichever way the vote goes, one result will be a published list of the email addresses of all who vote. (Lots of people - albeit many of them outside these islands - have already been trying to register their votes, not knowing the standard Usenet protocol for such things, so I have little doubt that the newsgroup will get the necessary number of votes to be created. In connection with the plans for this newsgroup, a number of us have been working on setting up an archive, and a World Wide Web server, for UK+I genealogy. In time this will contain details of all the relevant societies, with indications (where we know it) of those with Internet email and/or WWW addresses. (The one link I know it has already got is to a WWW server set up by the Northern Ireland FHS.) Recently I wrote to the Director of the Society of Genealogists asking for permission to put some of their information such as their Bookshop Catalogue and their leaflet about how to use their library, on the net. He reacted enthusiastically, offering to provide regular updates on disk, but needs to clear it with their Publications Committee. I'm now awaiting their formal decision. We already have a number of PRO leaflets online, plus various other resources, and links to other archives. We would be delighted to do something similar for the FFHS - e.g. to put the address details of all the member societies on the net (of course indicating any copyright restrictions), if this is acceptable. I had planned to write to the FHHS about this, but perhaps, in view of your mother's evident interest, you might like to seek her reactions before I do so. In the mean time, assuming you have access to the WWW, you might like to take a look at the present state of the UK+I server. It is run by Phil Stringer , and is at: http://cs6400.mcc.ac.uk/~zzassps/ukgen.html It is currently bing reorganized, and is not yet really publically available, but you should be able to get an idea for what we are trying to do, and how we are hoping to cooperate with and assist any orgasnizations within the UK and Ireland who are interested in usung the net for genealogy. Cheers Brian Randell Dept. of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk PHONE = +44 91 222 7923 FAX = +44 91 222 8232 Monday, February 13, 1995 9:21:10 PM GenWeb Item From: Bill Harten,wsharten@comnet.com,Internet Subject: Ancestral File AFNs and URNs To: GenWeb Scott McGee's GEDCOM-L questions about AFNs (Ancestral File Numbers) in the FHD Ancestral File system (AF): First note that the AFN concept will be replaced with an important RFN/URN concept, explained at the end. (Scott)>I have a question regarding the usefullness of AFN numbers in data from the >FHC. First, do AFN numbers identify a unique person? Yes. These are permanent record identifiers. Each individual gets one, and they are never reused. >Can I got to the local FHC and use >an AFN to look up someone using Ancestral File? Yes. This is the AFN search, I think search option C. > If so, how usefull are >they when using PAF, or Temple Ready? PAF stores them, but currently makes no particular use of them. This will probably be used in the future for a reconcile function that will bring the AF and PAF records for the same person into harmony. TempleReady ignores them. >Can my sister [search them] with PAF? Yes, I think so. Any field can be used as a qualifier in a search transaction. If you are using LifeLines, be sure you don't make up your own AFNs. These are assigned only by the AF system. >Another question in this same line of thought, if AFN's do id a unique person, >and I find two or more people with different AFN's to be the same person, >should I preserve all AFN's? Can the LDS Family History people use the AFN's >to merge these people, or how else do they go about updating things? AF provides a merge function that lets users combine two individual records selected by AFN or other means. The transactions are recorded on disk in an AF Transaction GEDCOM form and sent to AF operations. The AF system merges the individuals into a single record, updating family links and identifiers as needed. It retains both AFNs, either of which can be used in the future to access the merged individual. AFNs, RFNs, URNs, and URLs --------------------------------- Note that at some future time, AFNs are intended to be replaced by RFNs (record file number) as part of a proposed URN-like scheme, explained below. RFNs are discussed in GEDCOM 5.1 and later releases. The RFN includes a resource identifier, a colon character (:), and the record number. These are intended to correspond respectively to the "naming authority identifier" and "opaque string" components of a URN (Universal Resource Name--See the internet draft regarding URNs). Note that resources identified by a URN are not necessarily accessible online via the internet. The AFN in AF will become part of the RFN--the very same number will be used. Other compliant databases will receive their own identifier, and assign their own record numbers. The purpose of the RFN is to provide global unique record identification to support permanent pointers among multiple genealogical databases, independent of the machine where the database currently lives. Naming services will support conversion of URNs into URLs (Universal Resource Locaters) on the machine where the record currently lives. Records in all compliant databases would have this unique RFN field (at least whenever the record appeared in GEDCOM format). Note that there are still significant details to iron out in this scheme--this is the first time it has been discussed publicly, and we welcome feedback or better alternatives. It has not yet been fully implemented by any system. A concept of this importance takes a long time to set up correctly. Comments? (MAP?) Regards, Bill Harten GEDCOM Product Manager Family History Department Tuesday, February 14, 1995 7:23:22 AM GenWeb Item From: Tim Parker,tparker@infinet.com,Internet Subject: Scanned Photos To: GenWeb I am looking to see if what type of equiptment and resolutions and such people are using for images to be included in WWW pages. I am in the process of creating my tree "online" and would like include photos. I have a 400 dpi hand scanner that can scan in 256 shades of grey. Would this be presentable? Which format is best used? I personally prefer jpeg type of images seem more real, but my scanner does just tif, img. What is the best conversion program if needed? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to learn and keep up! Tim Parker Tuesday, February 14, 1995 7:33:06 AM GenWeb Item From: Mike PattonĄ genealogy mail,MAP=Genealogy@BBN.COM,Internet Subject: Re: Ancestral File AFNs and URNs To: GenWeb Since my comments seem to have been specifically solicited... Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:23:57 -0700 From: Bill Harten AFNs, RFNs, URNs, and URLs --------------------------------- ... The RFN includes a resource identifier, a colon character (:), and the record number. These are intended to correspond respectively to the "naming authority identifier" and "opaque string" components of a URN ... This looks like just the right thing (at least relative to the latest URN draft in the repositories, but I did note that that copy is rather old, but I couldn't find anything later, for reference, I used the copy at http://earth.path.net/mitra/urn.html, which doesn't have a date, but appears to be about 4 months old). I would hope that, once URNs become official, LDS intends to apply for a "NameScheme" for this (perhaps "GEDCOM" as the NameScheme), and to act as clearing house for "Naming AuthorityId"s for researchers who want to make their data referenceable in this way. This has the feature that if in future, I collect some interesting data and the AFN incorporates it, the RFN (and by inference the URN) of the original records in my DB could be used as source or reference pointers. I would strongly urge consideration of a slight amount of structure for the identifier field to make it easier on assignment if things really take off. I can talk about this in more detail if you want... ... The purpose of the RFN is to provide global unique record identification to support permanent pointers ... Naming services will support conversion of URNs into URLs on the machine where the record currently lives. Records in all compliant databases would have this unique RFN field (at least whenever the record appeared in GEDCOM format). Yup, sounds like exactly the right thing. We've (briefly) discussed this topic and these translation services on the GenWeb mailing list before. We decided to put the details off until later as there was other stuff to do...but it seems that a simple scheme with names under the genweb.org domain will work. Of course, if LDS adopts it and supports a "NameScheme" that they run, they may wish to operate it independantly. Note that there are still significant details to iron out in this scheme Yes, particularly considering that the details of URNs are not yet nailed down. Bill, are you in touch with Mitra, Chris and the others who are doing the prototype URN work? There is progress happening (at least that's what I hear), even if not reflected yet in the documents. Anyway, gotta run off to work now. Keep up the effort... -MAP P.S. I thought I'd requested addition to the GEDCOM discussion list, but seem not to be getting anything. Could someone send me the info on subscribing again? Don't subscribe me, as I want to get a special address on the list, just send the info to the address in this message's Reply-To and I'll deal with it when I get home tonight... Tuesday, February 14, 1995 10:40:38 AM GenWeb Item From: Gary Hoffman,ghoffman@ucsd.edu,Internet Subject: Re: Scanned Photos To: GenWeb Tim Parker said: I am looking to see if what type of equiptment and resolutions and such people are using for images to be included in WWW pages. ---------------- All the photos used in my GenWeb technology demonstration (the Wallace Jones project) were shot with a video camera and then digitized with an image capture board in and Apple Macintosh Quadra 840AV. Some were actually stored on videotape when shot then converted later. A simple freeware called video monitor captured the image in PICT format. I used a shareware program called Graphic Converter to resave it as a GIF. I feel quite constrained with the 8-bit color palette of the GIF format and am looking forward to using higher quality tools. When the GIF fiasco boiled over in December, Netscape's developers promised that future versions of Netscape Navigator would display inline images in JPEG format. That is probably the format we all should shoot for: 24 bit images in JPEG. Cheers, Gary Tuesday, February 14, 1995 12:05:02 PM GenWeb Item From: Bill Minnick,svpafug@rahul.net,Internet Subject: Re: Scanned Photos To: GenWeb In article tparker@infinet.com (Tim Parker) writes: >From: tparker@infinet.com (Tim Parker) >Subject: Scanned Photos >I am looking to see if what type of equiptment and resolutions and such >people are using for images to be included in WWW pages. TOM: The photos included in the ALTERNATIVE DEMO (found on the SVPAFUG home page: http://www.rahul.net/svpafug ) were scanned by a Logitech Scanman 256 hand scanner with the same features you quoted. I scanned the images from snapshots and scaled them down to be about 15 to 25 KBytes. I've used .gif file format because several browers last fall didn't seem to handle .jpg . I use the Logitech Fototouch Color program (came with the scanner) to scan, scale and retouch the photos in .tif format, and an old Halo program version to convert from .tif to .gif. Regards, Bill Minnick Wednesday, February 15, 1995 2:23:51 PM GenWeb Item From: William Bosanko,william.bosanko@arch2.nara.gov,Internet Subject: help! To: GenWeb Does anyone have a good "primer" on the web and genealogy? I am sure that there are many potential users lurking, but are not up to speed on the lingo, many are potentially valuable sources, or users of the finished product, but may become "scared off", or frustrated. I only say this as I find references to genweb all over the www. Just how many people subscribe, and lurk as they are lost.....the end product will be great, but many users are out and about now, and like myself are slightly lost For example, I downloaded a file with the extension .ged, I am sure it is gedcom, or maybe paf related, but how do I manipulate it? I know that gedcom is genealogy related, but what is it, how is it used, etc.. I know what I am looking for is an expanded FAQ, which some form of which is in the works, but even a referral to another www site, or book might educate more people and create more users, the end result is to create something which can be used, right.... Wednesday, February 15, 1995 4:14:54 PM GenWeb Item From: Scott McGee,smcgee@microware.com,Internet Subject: my genweb site To: GenWeb I am asking for ideas on where to go from here with my genweb stuff. I wish I could give you a URL to try it with, but our server is still refusing ofsite access. (I hope that changes soon!) Here is where I am now. My current setup will return an html very similar to that generated by the ll2html lifelines report, except for the following: If there is a picture on the system and it is identified in the gedcom (Using my proposed EXTL tag) , the picture is inlined. I am thinking about how to add further pictures and files to be displayed externally. At the end, I give credit to Tom for Lifelines and use the mailto: anchor to allow mail to me or to Tom. I also have a link to an index. Due to the time to create the index, it is not dynamically created but stored as an html file and updated whenever the data- base is. I also have a link to another cgi script that generates a pedigree chart. Each person on the pedigree chart is selectible to generate another chart for that person. At the end of the pedigree chart is a link to the inidividual page and to the index, plus the same sort of credits as in the inidvidual page. One thing I want to add is specification of the database in the url. I haven't done that yet. I also want to do a name lookup, but hesitate to use the Lookup method (as opposed to the LookupInternal method I am now using) as I have individuals with the exact same name. That implies that I could only access one of them. What I want to do is have a method that will return a page for the preson if uniquely ID'd, but will return a list of those who match the name if it was not unique. I would like to include some info (such as birth and death dates or some such) on this page. The user could then select the one that they want from the list. There is a lot more I want to do with this. I am hoping some of you will be able to offer suggestions. I realy wish I could make this stuff accessible now! If anyone is interested in any of the report programs I am using, feel free to ask. All so far are based on reports that came with lifelines (except for the standardperson report from the FAQ proposal) that I have modified. They are a little rough still, but usable. When I get all of this settled down, I will submit them for archiving somewhere if anyone feels this is desireable. Oh well, thanks for reading this, and I look forward to any ideas I get in response. Scott Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: smcgee@microware.com (Scott McGee) Web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sam8644/homepage.html Wednesday, February 15, 1995 8:49:41 PM GenWeb Item From: Mike PattonĄ GenWeb mail,MAP=GenWeb@BBN.COM,Internet Subject: RE: Ancestral File AFNs and URNs To: GenWeb Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 07:16:47 -0700 From: Bill Harten I said: (for reference, indented 5 spaces is me, 3 is Bill, none is me again :-) "I would strongly urge ... structure for the identifier field ... Please talk about this in more detail. There is a significant software development underway right now that depends on this information. OK, I'll try. First, I remember the days when it was clear that there would never be more than a few hundred hosts on the net, so 9 bits was enough to identify them all. My quick summary is that you may be about to repeat that same mistake! Let me tell you, fixing it was INCREDIBLY hard...the net has almost been killed off by its success twice (and a third wave of this may be happening now :-). Essentially, in the "ideal" case (or at least what I picture as the goal), every GEDCOM database everywhere will be identified by some unique value in this field. While it's possible that this will never be so many that a single registry can't cope, planning it so that it _can_ be delegated now will save lots of pain later. Of course, the flip side of that is that the wrong structure may be as bad as none. Note that if you get it wrong the first time, it's not updating the software that's going to be the real pain. Getting all the GEDCOM databases changed will be the real killer. Now, having said that, I have no idea what a good structure would be. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ...I would hope that, once URNs become official, LDS intends to apply for a "NameScheme" for this (perhaps "GEDCOM" as the NameScheme), and to act as clearing house for "Naming AuthorityId"s for researchers... We are thinking about doing this, but are evaluating other alternatives, such as you propose below. ... it seems that a simple scheme with names under the genweb.org domain will work. Of course, if LDS adopts it and supports a "NameScheme" that they run, they may wish to operate it independantly. Yes, this seems like a viable alternative to the URN approach. These were not two alternatives, but the two parts of one! You need TWO things, a scheme for constructing unique and resilient identifiers, and you need a way to take those identifiers and find an actual instance of the resource (whether on the net or not). For the first one, you get a URN NameScheme, for the example, I'll use "GEDCOM" for this. Issue identifiers (again for the sake of example let's say the identifier "AF" is assigned to the master Ancestral File and "MAP" is assigned to my DB (ignoring the fact that I argued against such simple identifiers above :-). Thus you now have URN:GEDCOM:AF:12345 as a way to refer to a specific record in the AF. If I use this record (with other info) as the basis for something in my DB, I can put a reference to it as a source (in GEDCOM it would look like just AF:12345 since within GEDCOM, you know it's a GEDCOM reference). But there needs to be some way to convert this to a URL (and perhaps URCs), but the nature of what we're talking about, I assumed it would need to be distributed. As has been demonstrated far too many times, when "distributed lookup service" comes up in the Internet context, the answer always seems to be DNS :-). I wrote a bit about this before, but I think something like having a subdomain of GENWEB.ORG (say DB.GENWEB.ORG) which is set up to do this makes it possible to distribute the management load and to get reliable and redundant lookup service. Say you take the identifier and append DB.GENWEB.ORG and do a QTYPE=ANY lookup getting back a URL to use (e.g. query for AF.DB.GENWEB.ORG gets "http://www.lds.org/af-lookup/" and you find the record above as "http://www.lds.org/af-lookup/12345") or multiple URLs if the DB is available redundantly. ---------------- non-GenWeb stuff, most can stop here ---------------- I tried to find you (MAP), at the IETF meeting in San Jose That would have been nice, but I was pretty busy all week... I think there was one lunch (or maybe two) that weren't actually business that we could have talked over, and I had spare time on Friday :-). ... I didn't know where to begin looking. The best technique I've found is a message (posting on the bulletin board, or sending by E-Mail) that says... "Let's meet at the reg desk for dinner (or lunch) at xxx". Except for people I know I'm going to see at particular WG sessions, that's the only thing I've found with a more than negligible hit rate... Arranging to meet at the social is also good if you're both going. Are you going to the next one? Since it's only 30 miles or so from my house, meeting might be easier :-). What do you work on? Mostly routing, operations and DNS. I do genealogy (and the web) as a spare time hobby. Since DoD paid for my trip there, I felt an obligation to go to the session related to my job whenever there is one (which seemed to be most every session, often there were TWO). For GEDCOM-L, Send subject SUBSCRIBE GEDCOM-L to listserv@vm1.nodak.edu. Oops, the question was how do I tell it I want a different address put on the list? I have very fancy mail processing, see header :-). -MAP Thursday, February 16, 1995 4:07:13 AM GenWeb Item From: Herbert Stoyan,Herbert.Stoyan@informatik.uni-erlangen.de,Internet Subject: access to genweb sites (Scotts mail) To: GenWeb I wrote a script which collects all people which match a name pattern and lists them all. Additionally, I wrote a script which collects all people living at a given time span an lists them all. Thursday, February 16, 1995 9:27:59 PM GenWeb Item From: Bill Harten,wsharten@comnet.com,Internet Subject: RE: Ancestral File AFNs and URNs To: GenWeb M. Patton: "I would strongly urge consideration of a slight amount of structure for the identifier field to make it easier on assignment if things really take off. I can talk about this in more detail if you want... Please talk about this in more detail. There is a significant software development underway right now that depends on this information. ...I would hope that, once URNs become official, LDS intends to apply for a "NameScheme" for this (perhaps "GEDCOM" as the NameScheme), and to act as clearing house for "Naming AuthorityId"s for researchers... We are thinking about doing this, but are evaluating other alternatives, such as you propose below. ... it seems that a simple scheme with names under the genweb.org domain will work. Of course, if LDS adopts it and supports a "NameScheme" that they run, they may wish to operate it independantly. Yes, this seems like a viable alternative to the URN approach. I think it will work as long as the domain name does not bind the database permanently to a particular machine location, which is what generally happens with URLs. This simpler approach would avoid at least one DNS URN->URL transaction cycle per session. Subsequent referrences are no problem because of caching. Can _permanent_ references be that simple? So far, our resource (database) identifier has been conceived as a short number (i.e, 1, 2, ...) to minimize storage space. These pointers will be very numerous in certain databases. We have already assigned a handful of resource id numbers and embedded them in some of our largest databases during the past 5 years. ...Bill, are you in touch with Mitra, Chris and the others who are doing the prototype URN work? I tried to find them, and tried to find you (MAP), at the internet IETF meeting in San Jose, but I only had one day, and decided to attend the HTML session. Someone said they thought you were there, but I didn't know where to begin looking. What do you work on? I hope to discuss this with Mitra, Chris ... as soon as time permits. Regards, Bill For GEDCOM-L, Send subject SUBSCRIBE GEDCOM-L to listserv@vm1.nodak.edu. Saturday, February 18, 1995 4:55:36 AM GenWeb Item From: CMELLOR@sjhs.sanjuan.k12.ut.us,Internet Subject: Sullivan-Stolp To: GenWeb I have been researching the following: John Sullivan (1850-1897) born Ireland, died Ohio. Wife Mary Ann Prince (about 1850-189?) born England, died Ohio. Descendants of August and Ludwig Stalp, born 1827, Prussia. Gennetts of Wisconsin, traced back to Vermont in 1840, can't trace them to Canada, Frank and Mathilda Puchay. Other names of interest: Hardtkopf, Lamp, Behrens, Kollmann, Phelps, Grennan, Geyhart. I have much information to share with others concerning Stalp family in Emmerichenhain Parish, Hessen-Nassau region, Germany. ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ Catherine L. Mellor San Juan High School 311 North 100 East Blanding, UT 84511 cmellor@sjhs.sanjuan.k12.ut.us Tuesday, February 21, 1995 11:45:19 AM GenWeb Item From: brian mavrogeorge,bmavroge@schwab.com,Internet Subject: Implementation issue To: GenWeb Although not directly part ofGenweb I thought I would share what has been happening in my quest to find a place for my homepage. A local provider NETCOM will not allow a home page. The local University, where Iam taking a night class, does not even have a Web server and it is "not in our plans". Another provider I use SPRY.COM (the Internet in a Box folks) will not allow a home page. So it would seem that we have been fortunate to date in that there are so many insitutions that have the facilities to permit the early development. But there has to be someway to move it out of the academic/ experimentation world. Bad enough that a minority of a minority has access to Internet and the WWW. But diminish it even more but an even smaller minority yet having the ability to publish home pages. We end up with a promising approach that fails for lack of implementation. --- You will see me by the side of the Information Highway holding up a cardboard sign reading -- will work for homepage... Tuesday, February 21, 1995 2:20:53 PM GenWeb Item From: Bill Minnick,svpafug@rahul.net,Internet Subject: Re: Implementation issue To: GenWeb In article bmavroge@schwab.com (brian mavrogeorge) writes: >Subject: Implementation issue > . . . . We end up with a promising approach that fails for lack of >implementation. --- You will see me by the side of the Information Highway >holding up a cardboard sign reading -- will work for homepage... Brian: We have taught several classes at our Silicon Valley PAF Users Group monthly Meetings on how to get onto the WWW. We are planning a class in preparing and fielding a home page. Our meetings are in Santa Clara, CA, every second Saturday of the month, year round. Come down and join us. Anyone with interest in these classes should contact me via E-MAIL for more information. You will need to find a local internet provider which allows home pages which in the SF Bay area is not hard -- -- at about $15-$20 per month (14K modem access). Then you need to download (or FTP) a Winsock and a Web Browser for starters. We have these on the SVPAFUG BBS (main board, file 28) (available to SVPAFUG members) if you don't have FTP capability yet. By the way, a couple of weeks ago the Prodigy Service provided its Windows based customers a Web Browser, which added about a million new folks with Web access. Half the people looking at our home Web data bases are from Prodigy now. I would not conclude that there is a "lack of implementation"; its more like "explosive growth" There's no reason to be on the side of the Information SuperHighway with a cardboard sign. If you're on GenWeb E-Mail, you've got a vehicle; just pick an on-ramp - and step on the gas! Regards, Bill Minnick, SVPAFUG Tuesday, February 21, 1995 8:51:10 PM GenWeb Item From: fred@compu.com,Internet Subject: Re: Implementation issue To: GenWeb also sagte Bill Minnick: > In article bmavroge@schwab.com (brian mavrogeorge) writes: > >Subject: Implementation issue > > > . . . . We end up with a promising approach that fails for lack of > >implementation. --- You will see me by the side of the Information Highway > >holding up a cardboard sign reading -- will work for homepage... > > Brian: We have taught several classes at our Silicon Valley PAF Users Group > monthly Meetings on how to get onto the WWW. We are planning a class in > preparing and fielding a home page. Excuse me folks but isn't this like using a jet to pull an oxcart? Somehow PAF and WWW don't seem to meet in the land of high-tech. I know that any brousable data will more than likely not be a complete GEDCOM or other Database but the premise of using PAF for this has me shaking my head. Or should I assume the PAF User's Group does not use PAF but Lifelines or something else a bit more sophisticated as to documentation? Fred -- W. Fred Rump or CompuData, Inc. | 'When we were young, we did not ask 26 Warren St | 10501 Drummond Rd | questions; now that we're old, there's Beverly NJ 08010 | Phila. PA 19154| no one to answer them.' 609-386-6846 | 215-824-3000 | fred@compu.com, 73512.2234@compuserve.com Tuesday, February 21, 1995 11:54:40 PM GenWeb Item From: Mike PattonĄ genweb mail,MAP=Genweb@BBN.COM,Internet Subject: Re: Implementation issue To: GenWeb Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:21:14 EST From: brian mavrogeorge Although not directly part of Genweb I thought I would share what has been happening in my quest to find a place for my homepage... One site that I've seen that's promising as a solution for this is Paranoia.com which is a net-only site (i.e. you need to access to the net already), but they support the full spectrum of FTP/WWW/TELNET access for $50 for six months (last I looked). They are set up as an alternative for cases like yours, and for people who have access through work, but want non-work space on the net. Check them out through the web at http://WWW.Paranoia.com/ (both the stuff the users have put online and signup information). Another note about addressing this... I'm expecting to have a permanent network connection to my home network sometime, which is how I expect to publish my data. When it comes through (assuming it does), I'll also be offering to house GEDCOM files for people. Once I have everything set up for my own, supporting additional databases is not hard... -MAP ---------------- You will see me by the side of the Information Highway holding up a cardboard sign reading -- will work for homepage... I like that quote... Wednesday, February 22, 1995 12:26:11 PM GenWeb Item From: Tim Parker,tparker@infinet.com,Internet Subject: Parker Web Page To: GenWeb I would like to announce my "Family on the Web" This has all been hand coded and is still in the growing stages. I am working on adding more each day. Take a look at it and tell me what you think. The url is below in my signature. ===================================================== http://www.infinet.com/~tparker/ Researching The Parker Name ===================================================== Wednesday, February 22, 1995 8:04:00 PM GenWeb Item From: Bill Minnick,afaoa@rahul.net,Internet Subject: Re: Implementation issue To: GenWeb In article "W. Fred Rump" writes: >also sagte Bill Minnick: >> Brian: We have taught several classes at our Silicon Valley PAF Users Group >> monthly Meetings on how to get onto the WWW. We are planning a class in >> preparing and fielding a home page. >Excuse me folks but isn't this like using a jet to pull an oxcart? Somehow >PAF and WWW don't seem to meet in the land of high-tech. I know that any >brousable data will more than likely not be a complete GEDCOM or other >Database but the premise of using PAF for this has me shaking my head. >Or should I assume the PAF User's Group does not use PAF but Lifelines or >something else a bit more sophisticated as to documentation? FRED: Take a look at URL: http://www.rahul.net/svpafug. Follow the Richard Austin link off the home page. You may find that the 6500-person Richard Austin data base represents the largest and best source-documented data base on the Web. It was developed by contributions from 30 people around the U.S. using the PAF program and various utilities which support PAF (e.g.HotNotes! for source data notes entry). With 100,000+ PAF users, it became possible to team up 15 of them around the country to get a significant descendant genealogy on the computer. In fact, we've (the Austin Families Association of America) teamed a number of other Austin families using primarily PAF over a three year period to produce other genealogies totaling over 50,000 Austin descendants. Then building on the pioneering efforts of Birger Wathne and Gene Stark, we placed the Richard Austin data base on the Web using Lifelines with a PAF-generated GEDCOM file. So PAF built the data base; Lifelines is presenting it on the Web. We did nothing at all to change the data base of operation with Lifelines. You may find the presentation limited, even crude in spots. But it's there before the eyes of the world giving its viewers a glimps at what will be possible -- when the tools are perfected (especially our infamous 3 minute index, which we are working to improve). We keep an automated log of every access to the Richard Austin Data Base. It is receives an average of 60 accesses per day; about 5 accesses average per viewer. The log shows that interest is truly world wide. Once we get our 50,000 Austin descendants on the Web (by August '95?) we hope to build (with help from you and others) an efficient e-mail feedback path that puts the experts on one individual/family into direct contact; we want to do this with each individual/family in the data bases. Our intial concept is "email to the individual/family" with a cc list. We want the email repository to stay with the individual/family in the data base over time, not be stuck in the desk drawer of a deceased researcher as the desk goes to auction. We want to make it easy for any person with better information to communicate the information and the source(s). If you have any ideas to help us, we're interested. Better yet, if you have any Lifelines reports which can generate an index quickly for a 10,000 person data base (our PAF users have added another 4,000 persons to the data base since November). We are trying to avoid 200 pre-generated HTML pages. By the way, don't be too quick to scoff at PAF. It has played a key role in accomplishing an early Genweb achievement, and has a few more years of life left, no doubt. Regards, Bill Minnick Thursday, February 23, 1995 8:48:09 AM GenWeb Item From: steele@census.works.ti.com,Internet Subject: Implementation issue To: GenWeb Fred Rump: >Or should I assume the PAF User's Group does not use PAF but Lifelines or >something else a bit more sophisticated as to documentation? Bill Minnick: >We want to make it easy for any person with better information to >communicate the information and the sources(s). >By the way, don't be too quick to scoff at PAF. My 2 cents worth: I am working on the GENTECH home page and one of the places I have linked to is svpafug's home page because they have valuable needed information. In October I gave a lecture on source analysis using the computer at Richmond's FGS conference. I used the svpafug's guidelines and generated PAF examples as well as examples from TMG. I had printed about 60 of the 1 page summary of the source documentation guidelines for PAF and I was swamped afterwards with 30 requests for more. (The audience was about 350) Their guidelines can be used by ANY of the software packages that don't have extensive sourcing capabilities. (They show how to document in the note fields.) So, not only has the svpafug provided a key role in urging people to document their evidence, but they continue to fill a need in the genealogy community. Thank to the Silicon Valley PAF Users Group for the fine Web pages and for the hard work it took to draft those source guidelines! Jeri Saturday, February 25, 1995 9:29:17 AM GenWeb Item From: Kimi Adams,kimadams@taurus.oursc.k12.ar.us,Internet Subject: Charles Washington Linthicum To: GenWeb I am looking for information on Charles Washington Linthicum:born 1844,in Kentucky: WIfe< Sentiha, this must have been his 2nd wife ,but I don't know who the first one ws:born 1862 in Texas co. Mo. Children were: James born 1862 in Illinois,Emma,born 1876 in Illinois,Lula,born 1889 in Missouri, Elmer,born 1891 in Missouri,martha born 1898 in Missouri. Charles died in Pittsburg Kansas,but is not listed in cemetery records there in crawford co.If you have any information on any of the above I would appreciate it if you would get in touch with me Kathryn Crunkleton Everton Ar. %Kimi Adams Monday, February 27, 1995 4:21:09 AM GenWeb Item From: Tim Parker,tparker@infinet.com,Internet Subject: Complete Parker Database To: GenWeb I am in the works of compiling a complete PARKER Database. I am offering my services to the Genealogical community to maintain and search my database free of charge and in a timely manner. I am looking for any and all relatives and descendants of any Parker at any time. All I ask is that if you have data that you submit it in a GEDCOM format. I will then transfer it to my Approach database and have it available for searching. The reason I have started this is to hopefully help, navigate people others that are researching the same line. I have had several requests since putting my Family line on the WEB as to whether or not I would have info on a certain person/group of Parkers. Hopefully now, I will be able to at least give an address of someone to try. The items needed for submission are: * A Gedcom file of just the descendants of your oldest Parker. * A small info/fact letter/email about your line, where located, any history, etc. * Your Email,and snail mail address for contact by others * Approval for me to give out either address to inquiring individuals that may be looking for info you have. I will return email, a personal code that I will assign to allow me to know who submitted what data. If I see that two or more peoples data overlap. I will also send mail to the parties involved to talk. If anyone has any questions or would like to take part, just send email! Thanks! ===================================================== http://www.infinet.com/~tparker/ Researching The Parker Name ===================================================== Wednesday, March 1, 1995 6:41:04 PM GenWeb Item From: Chuck Tucker,ctucker@coyote.csusm.edu,Internet Subject: WWW Home Page To: GenWeb Can anyone recommend a source of instructions on how to make up a home page on the web (or is it more proper to say make up an html document)? I'm just a little lost in all of this hyper text type stuff. Thanks, Chuck Thursday, March 2, 1995 7:44:12 AM GenWeb Item From: Jim Isaak- isaak@csac.enet.dec.com,isaak@csac.ljo.dec.com,Internet Subject: Sources of info on HTML structure and tools To: GenWeb Chuck, here are some web pointers to information about HTML and tools available to create web pages. I just installed the Microsoft package on my PC w/Word 6, and it works fairly well (although is not as well documented as I would like, but that is the norm for many of these packages available over the net). What I'm interested in is the "style" that we should use to create genealogical pages. I just joined the distribution list, so this may be an old topic (can someone point me to an archive, or a web page that expands on the concepts) ... Questions I see in this reguard: Family Group pages vs individual/marriage pages (this is "open" from what I can tell) norm for "title" on a page (name, bdate??) [wais can search this] sequence of information on a page norm for references - (end of page, hot links...) should pages have internal "anchors" {#labels} and what? for example ... akin to GEDCOM or ... for spouse, kids, etc. Jim Isaak, N.H. For information on the structure of HTML ======================================== http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html points to both the "formal" documents describing the language, and also the tutorials & primers online. Tools for creating HTML (Web) documents: ======================================== see: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Tools/Overview.htm [Microsoft word package, see:] http://www.microsoft.com/pages/deskapps/word/ia/default.htm Thursday, March 2, 1995 12:53:08 PM GenWeb Item From: Ann Brice,brice@bwco.com,Internet Subject: WWW info resources To: GenWeb I attended a system manager's meeting recently on setting up a WWW server. The lecturer listed the following resources: HTML converters: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Tools/Filters.html HTML editors http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Computers/World_Wide_Web/HTML_Editors "The Whole Internet User's Guide & Catalog", 2nd edition. by Ed Krol. Published by O'Reilly & Associates "Managing Internet Information Services" by Cricket Liu & Jerry Peek. Published by O'Reilly & Associates. This book, I think, had info on setting up servers and presumably on setting up a home page. Ann Brice brice@bwco.com